C1 and C2 for sale - Update

[k1c1w]

Located in western Mass.:

* Dagger Cascade - original outfitting,very good condition. Red and black. Forgot to say: with newish sprayskirt XL tunnel $350

* Grokshok C2 - 1993, outfitting and boat in good condition. Boat sustained one crack early in life, was repaired and does not leak. Teal deck and white hull. $500

Will send pics.

redrockwanderer AT &G& Mail Dot Com

[momark]

is the c2 still for sale?

[Sir Adam]

After 3 years hard to say.

I'm about to post up a Upstream Edge Tomahawk C2 for sale (nice layup, foam core deck, good shape) for $800. PM if interested, otherwise I'll post it up here eventually. Located in upstate NY.

[momark]

Not Familiar with the Tomahawk. I've paddled a Grokshark and like it cause it's pretty forgiving. Open to other options, but we're not focused on Slalom, so want something forgiving and stable. If you're ready to sell, is there any chance you could share a description of the boat and perhaps a few pics? You could send those to my email@ momentumoutdoors@hotmail.com. Thanks

[mkoeppe]

The Grokshark will be a lot more forgiving than the Tomahawk C2. My husband and I have river run in a Savage Grokshark for about 30 years - we had 2 different boats built for us over the years. We've done everything from the Middle Fork of the Salmon, Lower Gauley, Lower Yough, etc. We even flew the Grok Shark down to Honduras and Costa Rica for a week of rivers - Class III-IV. We still have our Savage Grok Shark and plan to keep it.

That being said, here's another possibility: The River Elf Storm Giant C2 http://www.riverelf.com/
We bought the first one in fall of 2018 and took it out west to the Owyhee River in Oregon this spring. We love it! It's 10'9", lots of volume (not a slalom design) and extremely forgiving.

We've also paddled it on some smaller rivers in northern WI and it was great. We've posted a review on Cboats if you're looking for more on this C2. Worth concidering.

[momark]

Thanks for that! I found the River Elf website last week and was looking at their Storm Giant. It's an interesting design for sure, looks fairly forgiving, which would be fabulous in those challenging conditions that might leave you otherwise practicing your bracing and tandem rolling skills more than you'd like. Do you ever paddle open boats? We paddle a Caption fairly often, and the quest for a C Boat is, in part, due to the Caption's round edges - really looking for something that can carve. Not sure the Storm Giant would be profoundly different feeling than the Caption, though certainly drier. Any thoughts? I'm going to go looking for your review, thanks for the heads up!

[mkoeppe]

Here's a link to the River Elf Storm Giant C2 review: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7970405

My husband and I do not paddle open canoe tandem - we've spent 35 years in slalom C1s and C2s. We both slalom race and river run in our slalom boats.
I do believe that the Storm Giant C2 will carve much better than the Caption as it has harder chines. Not as hard as a slalom boat which makes the Storm Giant so forgiving. Chris Soileau at River Elf designed this C2 with slalom lines and it does feel like that to us. Also it's only 10'9" so 3+ feet shorter than your Caption. Our SG C2 weighs 39.5 lbs outfitted, so also probably about 30 lbs lighter than your open boat. This weekend, we just paddled a very small river with really small shore eddies. We easily snapped into this eddies. This boat is very nibble compared to an open boat. I'll send you a PM so we can connect if you have more questions.

[mkoeppe]

I would also add that the Storm Giant C2 does not slide coming into eddies. A 14 ft open canoe will certainly slide. So to answer you question, yes this C2 will handle very differently than your Caption. We have paddled tandem open canoe on occasion - they are slugs compared to a composite C2. The weight difference alone will make the boat handling feel much different. You will be able to accelerate faster into and out of eddies, ferrying, etc. Also, if you get a bit off line in a rapid, it is way easier for the stern person to correct the angle in the Storm Giant since it's so short and will spin quickly. Even though this boat will not do pivot turns, we will still lean away from the turn at times with this boat. It's just a blast to paddle!

[jfkoeppe]

Here are my sentiments/opinions on the boats that have been discussed here:
**> Tomahawk C2: We paddled a Tomahawk for about 30 minutes many years ago. The Tomahawk is fairly similar to a Whupatar C2, as they were designed around the same time. We raced (slalom) and river ran a lot in the Whupatar. The Whupatar was a very good race boat, fast in a straight line, hard chines for very good carving on upstream gates or when surfing a wave. The hard chines and a fairly low volume tail come at a price; that being a boat that I wouldn't call twitchy, but you did need to be precise with your leans. My impression was that the Tomahawk had slightly harder chines than the Whupatar. Lecky Haller and Matt Taylor raced in a Tomahawk back in the day.

**> Grokshark C2: We both raced and river ran a lot in a GrokShark. It isn't as good a slalom boat as either the Tomahawk or Whupatar, but with softer chines is pretty darn forgiving for a slalom design, and is a good river runner. Its got a good bit more volume in the tail - not as good for pivot turns - but much better stability-wise. John Kaz at Millbrook boats may still have a Grokshark mold, but I don't know if he is building decked boats any more.

**> Storm Giant C2: This is designed as a river runner. It has somewhat softer chines than the Grokshark, but not so soft that you'll slide a lot when doing eddy turns. I notice very little sliding - if any - when doing eddy turns. It's also pretty predictable when carving while surfing a wave - not quite like a slalom boat - but not at all a mushy feel.

**> Dagger Caption: I'll admit that I haven't paddled a Caption, so I'm guessing here based on looking at pictures. This would be quite a bit different than a Storm Giant. It appears to have softer chines. It is also - I believe - a 60 lb boat when not outfitted (Storm Giant at 39.5 lb outfitted), so it won't accelerate as quickly. The Storm Giant at only 10' 9" is enough shorter that it will turn considerably faster than a Caption. The Storm Giant has enough volume so that your seat can be pretty high and still be stable - probably not as high as in an open boat. For example, my seat is 7" off the bottom of the boat and feels fine. I'm pretty sure you could go somewhat higher and still be stable.

[Kelly-Rand]

Very nice description of C2 performance characteristics. I wish I had room and could justify another boat like the Storm Giant. I think any of the C2's discussed here would be fun and much different from your OC experience. The River Elf will be the most satisfying because if it is anything like their C1 you will be able to catch the smallest eddies, attain and surf waves that won't hold other boats and do this with little effort.
Good luck in your search.