canoe molds
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Jared the.canoe.ninja
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canoe molds
Hey everyone I'm lookin for a canoe mold to purchase or use actually two of them a short creeker style and a long rec or raceing style. I'm located in central. Pa but can travel some distance if need be
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Sir Adam
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Stealth slalom C1 mold (1991 design), I think it was an Apple production mold.
http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?typ ... me=Stealth
It is in upstate NY, might be able to make it to Pittsburg if we sweet talk PAC and he has to head up this way this winter
Cash or interesting trades accepted... I paid $200 for it.... If I still have it in the spring, and Stuber can get it from back east he has first dibs... but until then it is available.
http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?typ ... me=Stealth
It is in upstate NY, might be able to make it to Pittsburg if we sweet talk PAC and he has to head up this way this winter
Cash or interesting trades accepted... I paid $200 for it.... If I still have it in the spring, and Stuber can get it from back east he has first dibs... but until then it is available.
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
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Jared the.canoe.ninja
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- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:39 pm
Molds
Sir Adam:
I agree, Dynel is a bear to deal with. I use it alot on my boat repairs. I find it works well with gflex but takes patience. Once done I believe its tough and takes the hits well. Oh and it is cheap.
Greybear
I agree, Dynel is a bear to deal with. I use it alot on my boat repairs. I find it works well with gflex but takes patience. Once done I believe its tough and takes the hits well. Oh and it is cheap.
Greybear
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Jared the.canoe.ninja
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- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:39 pm
Yea a prelude would be cool the problem is its illegal. Making a scratch off any boat is illegal. The problem also arises you would need a new one with no scratches to make a good mold off of. Cost is always relative to what you are building size durability of the mold etc. My last boat ran me 1000$ and it was super light weight a 13 foot slalom race boat. hull GKKG deck GKG. so a canoe would obviously cost more. the upside is its easier to work on. I have all the materials I need and i wouldn't mind making my own mold in fact that wa the ultimate goal but after i modified the pieces i would be constructing off the original. but permission is difficult to get most people will rent a mold for a specified # of boats to be built, but getting permission to build a mold off a boat thats a bit more difficult. It used to be acceptable to do this and no one cared by not builders are much more concerned about their designs being stolen.
As far as durability goes no composite materials like Glass and Kevlar only go so far. I've pinned my squirt boat and didn't have it break buts its a kayak and being decked like that adds a tremendous amount of rigidity to the boat. (I could still feel it flexing. A canoe would have broke in half Im sure. There are two approaches to making a boat be able to take more abuse one go thin it flexes around rocks in a canoe this is a bad idea. going heavy if you were going to spend that much on material and make it that heavy just buy a canoe. This project was for class 3 flat trips like the lower yough at higher water like 4 feet plus and for general deep water play not steep creeking.
Still looking, I know someone has one.
As far as durability goes no composite materials like Glass and Kevlar only go so far. I've pinned my squirt boat and didn't have it break buts its a kayak and being decked like that adds a tremendous amount of rigidity to the boat. (I could still feel it flexing. A canoe would have broke in half Im sure. There are two approaches to making a boat be able to take more abuse one go thin it flexes around rocks in a canoe this is a bad idea. going heavy if you were going to spend that much on material and make it that heavy just buy a canoe. This project was for class 3 flat trips like the lower yough at higher water like 4 feet plus and for general deep water play not steep creeking.
Still looking, I know someone has one.
Hmm. I was under the impression that a boat hull would have to be patented to be protected from copy, but obviously manufacturers would see a big difference between a one-off and churning out 50 hulls. Also, there is a long tradition of taking existing hulls, chopping/bending/adding to them in order to make something new and different. You can ask Jeremy, but I think this is how the BlackFly came into being.
Obviously. it would also work to have a used hull that you could bondo into mold-quality condition.
It certainly sounds like you know what you are doing Jared, so I'm probably preaching to the choir.
Thanks,
Shep
p.s. in reality, I would only buy a composite boat if I were going to be slalom racing. I know otherwise I would just destroy someone's hard work (and waste my money). On the other hand, I would love to have the time and money to make my own composite boat, just to do it.
Obviously. it would also work to have a used hull that you could bondo into mold-quality condition.
It certainly sounds like you know what you are doing Jared, so I'm probably preaching to the choir.
Thanks,
Shep
p.s. in reality, I would only buy a composite boat if I were going to be slalom racing. I know otherwise I would just destroy someone's hard work (and waste my money). On the other hand, I would love to have the time and money to make my own composite boat, just to do it.
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John Coraor
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Durability also depends alot on what you plan on doing with your boat. I wouldn't recommend serious creeking with composite, although there is enough old school creeking footage around to prove that it can be done. However river running - including old school classics like the Upper Yough, Upper Gauley, Cheat, New, etc. - is relatively feasible without serious risk of damage to a well-made composite boat.
My wife and I used to run all of the above rivers in composite decked boats, as we paddled our slalom boats all the time as part of our race training. While we were pretty good at avoiding rocks, we had our share of contacts, some of which the boat took in stride and others which caused enough damage to warrant repair. (Disclaimer: I say "used to" because while I still paddle composite exclusively, including my OC-1, I don't tend to paddle Class IV-V anymore.) However, open boats are certainly more vulnerable to damage than decked if you swamp or swim which you also have to consider in your choice.
John
My wife and I used to run all of the above rivers in composite decked boats, as we paddled our slalom boats all the time as part of our race training. While we were pretty good at avoiding rocks, we had our share of contacts, some of which the boat took in stride and others which caused enough damage to warrant repair. (Disclaimer: I say "used to" because while I still paddle composite exclusively, including my OC-1, I don't tend to paddle Class IV-V anymore.) However, open boats are certainly more vulnerable to damage than decked if you swamp or swim which you also have to consider in your choice.
John
Tough composite boats
I have had some extremely tough composite canoes...they have taken big hits and experienced what might be called momentary-wraps. They have lasted many years even during my high-mileage years.
I have not paddled PE boats and can't say for sure how mine would compare.
The lay-ups for my tough boats were modeled after those used by Bill McKnight: post-cure heat-set epoxy resin and a high proportion of nylon and polyester cloth. My all-time most durable boats were made with the resin McKnight used: Shell 828 resin with Jeffamine hardener. These boats needed a 200*F 6-hour post cure heat. The lay-ups had 2-4 layers of nylon or polyester cloth for the wetted surface. There tended to be two layers of glass or Kevlar, too.
I have also made some very tough boats using the Phase-Two resin system which only needs 140*F for 2 hours.
Now, as far as ripping off designs. Sure, lot's of so-called designers have snatched whole wetted surfaces. Others have added rocker, reduced length, or whatever. Are these things "legal"? Who knows.
But, what I do know is that is it mostly paddlers who do these designs. These are not the faceless people who design, say, the front fender of a '67 Dodge Dart. They are Prijon, Davey, Franky, Kaz. And, I can tell you that some of those people are totally unhappy when people "borrow" parts of their designs w/o permission.
I have to believe anyone who has ever, from scratch, designed a surface and then faired it to commercial- or race-standards will understand their position on this.
For me, before I use anyone else's work, I am going to ask them for permission. So, If I just use the center 3' of a Howler to make a new 13' boat...I will ask Kaz first. Maybe this is excessive...but, when I fair and polish a hull right before molding it...I look at that thing, and it is just beautiful. Fair, smooth, functional. I value the work of the designer enough to want to use it...I am going to ask the designer.
I have had designers say: "Sure, use it," and "Sure, but you have to pay royalties on each boat."
I firmly believe this is not a private vs. commercial use or an old- vs. new-design issue. You mold a Blue Hole OCA and build one Kevlar OCA, and I think you should ask permission.
I really think one can build a composite boat which is as tough as PE; I think it is likely that it will come in at about 90% of the weight. Not a massive improvement...but, you are getting the exact boat you want.
I have not paddled PE boats and can't say for sure how mine would compare.
The lay-ups for my tough boats were modeled after those used by Bill McKnight: post-cure heat-set epoxy resin and a high proportion of nylon and polyester cloth. My all-time most durable boats were made with the resin McKnight used: Shell 828 resin with Jeffamine hardener. These boats needed a 200*F 6-hour post cure heat. The lay-ups had 2-4 layers of nylon or polyester cloth for the wetted surface. There tended to be two layers of glass or Kevlar, too.
I have also made some very tough boats using the Phase-Two resin system which only needs 140*F for 2 hours.
Now, as far as ripping off designs. Sure, lot's of so-called designers have snatched whole wetted surfaces. Others have added rocker, reduced length, or whatever. Are these things "legal"? Who knows.
But, what I do know is that is it mostly paddlers who do these designs. These are not the faceless people who design, say, the front fender of a '67 Dodge Dart. They are Prijon, Davey, Franky, Kaz. And, I can tell you that some of those people are totally unhappy when people "borrow" parts of their designs w/o permission.
I have to believe anyone who has ever, from scratch, designed a surface and then faired it to commercial- or race-standards will understand their position on this.
For me, before I use anyone else's work, I am going to ask them for permission. So, If I just use the center 3' of a Howler to make a new 13' boat...I will ask Kaz first. Maybe this is excessive...but, when I fair and polish a hull right before molding it...I look at that thing, and it is just beautiful. Fair, smooth, functional. I value the work of the designer enough to want to use it...I am going to ask the designer.
I have had designers say: "Sure, use it," and "Sure, but you have to pay royalties on each boat."
I firmly believe this is not a private vs. commercial use or an old- vs. new-design issue. You mold a Blue Hole OCA and build one Kevlar OCA, and I think you should ask permission.
I really think one can build a composite boat which is as tough as PE; I think it is likely that it will come in at about 90% of the weight. Not a massive improvement...but, you are getting the exact boat you want.