shoulder injury?

[truckeeboater]

When folks talk about protecting your shoulders (particularly while rolling) which shoulder is the one more likely injured, on-side or off-side? And why? I mean, what are the mechanics of a "bad" roll technique that can lead to shoulder injury? Just getting my pool roll down, and want to make sure I can paddle safely. Thanks!

[Todhunter]

I don't know what the common injury is, but I hurt my onside (shaft-hand side) shoulder when I was rolling with bad technique in the beginning. I had watched a handful of videos and not really talked to anyone and went to a pool and tried to just muscle the boat up with my arms. I went home sore, and then within a week I couldn't put on or take off a t-shirt without very sharp pain in my right (onside) shoulder. This lasted a few weeks, then tapered off. About 6 months later I hopped in a kayak for the first time ever and tried to roll it like a caone after flipping in a rapid (I could kind of roll then, but still wasn't very good and didn't have good form), this really hurt my shoulder and I had very bad pain for 6 months. I considered getting it looked at, but never did. It gradually tapered off and I occasionally get a twinge of pain still but I'm very cautious about it now. I don't want to have surgery, so I try to keep my roll technique brushed up to prevent myself from trying to muscle the boat up.

[jakke]

I would say the onside shoulder has the most risk of being exposed to injury. The T-grip hand is always inside the paddlers box, and not much force is on that arm.
The shaft arm on the other hand, can be easily extended outside the "paddlers box" or being swept there by current, rocks, ... .

[Shep]

From my WFR and EMT training, as well as canoe instructor background, this is my explanation:

When you extend your shaft hand above your head, you are moving the shoulder-end of the humerus into a position where it can more easily dislocate, as well as placing more leverage on that arm. That puts strain on the tendons and ligaments that form the shoulder. Keeping in mind that the shoulder joint is the only major joint without a piece of bone as a "receiver" for the ball on the other bone, it is easy to see why the shoulder is especially prone to dislocation. (The knee isn't as bad due to the function of the patella, but obviously ACL injuries are not uncommon in leg-focused sports.)

As canoeists, we generally keep our hands at head-level and below, an advantage over what kayakers do when paddling. However, when we roll, the situation is reversed. We roll from a position of greater risk for shoulder injury.

Hope this helps,
Shep

[truckeeboater]

That's pretty much exactly what I was looking for! Thanks guys.

[edg]

For me, the mechanics that cause rolling injuries are using the blade as a "handle" to pull oneself upright. Ideally, the roll is about the hipsnap, and most of the setup should involve getting the blade to the surface and out of the way, not using it as something to push or pull on. From teaching kayaking, I can say that athletic young men are the worst, since they tend to want to muscle things anyway. Look around at the pool. I can almost guarantee you will see at least one novice kayaker totally leaned back, head lifted up away from the water, and with the arm/blade they are trying to roll with totally outstretched behind them. All of that weight/inertia is being absorbed by the shoulder in its weakest, most vulnerable position. That's what I try to avoid at all costs.

[truckeeboater]

Thanks Ed! Thinkin of going to the pool tomorrow night. can you make it?

[slomoracing]

This is coming from a ex kayaker turned opend boaters perspective so take it for what you will... I think that almost every aspect of canoeing keeps my shoulders from harm. Obviously not all the time, but if you watch any of fur trapper Phil's videos about rolling ( and if you haven't and are looking to better your roll you should) he places his body over the paddle and uses a huge amount of core toroll the boat. In a kayak the roll.is putting your shoulder way above your head subjecting it to a huge amount of strain. I have had to have two shoulder surgeries due to kayaking while when I run similar stuff in the canoe I am always way over the paddles. Anyway a lot of words about nothing, basically canoeing rocks and watch Phil's videos on vimeo, they are killer