C1 Winter Project - Boat Advice Needed

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:31 pm

My girlfriend and I are both OC paddlers (she - Ocoee and me a Phantom). We're driving home from paddling last weekend and she says to me "maybe I should consider getting a C1?".
Since I always visit the paddling websites, I offered to do a little research for her.
The reason she is thinking of going to a C1 is that she finds the Ocoee a little big. Rather than going to a smaller OC, the C1 sounds appealing since she also likes the idea of having a decked boat. Her boating interests are pretty much river running, with the occasional hole play, however nothing major. She is not interested in rodeo moves. I'm thinking that a creeker kayak conversion might be the way to go? I'm not too familiar with the whole C1 experience, so any boat advice is definitely appreciated.
Paddler size is 5'6" - 120lbs.
Thanks in advance!

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:00 pm

Glenn, although I am not really an expert, I think a Dagger Infrared might be a good first C1 for you or Dianne! I don't think that a creeker would be the way to go for the kind of paddling you are interested in.
There is quite a number of people here in Ontario using the Dagger Redline as riverrunner, and the Infrared is a slightly scaled down version of it for smaller paddlers.
They are not in production any more, but you should be able to pick one up fairly cheaply. Check out the stats of it here:

http://daggereurope.com/prod_catrgy/WWK ... rared.html

Oh, and just a little hint, a certain blue Dagger Atom may come up for sale... If you or Dianne want to try it out next weekend or so to get a feel for C1 paddling, give me a shout.

martin

CosmikDebris · Post by **CosmikDebris** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:18 pm

I'm not so sure I'd get an Infrared, they are a little outdated. I think an X would be a great boat. It's a great river runner and if she likes surfing it is good for that too. I'd recommend some boat with a planning hull anyways. Good luck,
Will

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 pm

I'd agree with Will - even if you're just after a cruising boat, get something with a planing hull so that surfing can be a bit more fun (there's nothing like the feeling of those first few spins). It'd also allow for a bit more growth and the ability to try other things, even if they aren't her focus now. And it'll still be a great river runner.

As a winter project, were you intending to buy a K1 and do the conversion? That does make your options a lot wider, otherwise there are a bunch of boats that would work fine on the for sale forum at the moment - the X, as Will suggested and a LUV. Also a Delirious, a Witch and an Ultrafuge, but those will be twitchier - they're more full on playboats. It also really depends on how big she is. The Ultrafuge is pretty fun and slicey for me (at 150lbs) but would be far less so for a lighter person. For someone around 120lbs, the Delirious would probably be a pretty good river runner, wheras for me it's moderately edgy and a pretty decent playboat. where flatwater cartwheels are a definite possibility.

Hope this helps some

Matt

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:26 pm

Glenn,

I would tend to avoid creek boats as their lack of edges will make them less satisfactory as river runners. Have the two of you considered boats like the Forplay or Session? I know they are both a couple of years old and have relatively slicy ends, but I know they make successful C1 conversions. I suspect an X would be slow. While the InfraRed may not have a planing hull, I've still seen guys paddling Redline conversions outsurfing almost everyone.

Hope you have a great weekend,

Martyn

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:29 pm

You and Dianne are more than welcome to try out a few boats, if you're anywhere near upstate NY (as is anyone else!).

If you're into river-running, I'd go longer (Infrared, or for olderschool SuperSport for Conversions, or check out an Atom or any number of glass boats (an old slalom boat can be A LOT of fun).

If she wants to play, definitely follow NZMatt and others suggestions....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:39 pm

Thanks for the quick replies!
I thought of a creek boat since the hull seemed to look most similar to a canoe. Since there has already been two people suggesting against the creek boat, I guess looks can be deceiving…
Matt, the plan is to do the conversion ourselves.
Please keep the suggestions coming.
One more thing… I have a Pyranha Inazone 220 lying around (had some silly idea that I was going to give kayaking a try this summer). I think this boat would make a great play C1, but for river running, it seems just a little too slicey, even if the paddler is 120lbs. Any thoughts about this?
Glenn

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:42 pm

Where do you live? I have a Dagger C1 pedestal I can donate to your project.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:49 pm

The Redline/Infrared both have a planing hull, so you can do spins and all that, you just can't do flatwater moves, as there is too much volume in the ends. This however makes it more predictable when running bigger water like the Ottawa.
I think they make great beginner C1, and due to their length they have still decent speed for river running.

I just looked up the specs for the Wavesport X, and they are actually fairly similar, the X is a few inches shorter, probably slightly slower, while the Infrared has a more even volume distribution.
The Infrared tends more to the river running side of the spectrum, while the X is more of a play boat. Depends whether you are more into the riverrunning or the playing side of it.

If you are looking for one, check out kayaknews.ca, there are several X as well as Infrared for sale, asking prices somewhere inbetween 500 and 700 Can$.

http://kayaknews.ca/cgi-bin/yak/4sale.c ... try=Canada

Those are all yaks, which means you have to rip all the junk out and put real outfitting in there

martin

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:04 pm

Oh yeah, I was at Northern Lights in Barrie/Ontario the other day and they had also a few Dagger pedestals in the showroom. Didn't ask them how much they are though.

martin

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:28 am

Glenn and Diane, look in the boats for sale forum, as of October 22 PAC had an already converted Wavesport X for sale:

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... 95c66e88dd

Saves the conversion work.

martin

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:00 am

try the inazone 220, the cockpit is fairly narrow at the front, but this boat should be as good as the other playboats being suggested.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:37 pm

convert the inazone!!!!! my girlfriend camille has been paddling a 222 for over a year now, an loves it. she also started in an open boat. she has been doing really well in it, and paddled A LOT of new rivers this year. i think it makes a great learning boat. since your wife already has some experience, she should do fine in one. the cockpit is a little narrow at the top, but it doenst shound like she is to big, so that shouldnt be a problem. ---- joey

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:01 am

Glenn,
Time to dust off that Pyranha Inazone 220 that you have lying around and convert it to a C1. Pyranha makes a great boat and the Inazone series make good C1s.

First remove the kayak seat and get her to sit in it to determine if the cockpit will work. Use anything (foam, ball, etc) that is close to saddle height (approx 6") to sit on to test out the cockpit. Pyranha cockpits get narrow at the front. If you think there is enough thigh and knee room then convert!

Also, you could try posting a new topic to see if others have converted a Pyranha Inazone 220.

Good luck and maybe next year you will say to her, maybe I should get a C1!

chucknaill · Post by **chucknaill** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:23 pm

Glenn,

YOu have already received many great suggestions on this post, but please let me add mine. The Dagger GTX is 8.2 and is designed to be a river runner with some play potential. THe newer boats are called Dagger GT's and come in three sizes I think, you can chrck the dagger web site. I inherited one from my son who wanted to play more and converted a G-Force. I have enojoyed the boat and it is easy to roll. It is comfortable and has some good storage area for longer winter runs. I bought a Mountain Surf Kevlar skirt from NOC for $100.

In my opinion it is better to go with the newer designs since the science is improved. An old boat can also have collected some uv's and might have become brittle. Others can argue these points against.

New Dagger peditals can be bought for $55 from Kayakoutfitting.com or Kayakoutfitters.com. THere is a link on Boater Talk

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C1 Winter Project - Boat Advice Needed

C1 Winter Project - Boat Advice Needed

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