C-Forum

Lung - My kayaking experience involves getting in a kayak once, getting splashed in the face uncontrollably from 2ft waves - then never getting in a kayak again..


my statement about OC1 being safer than K1 came from the following....

#1 - In a kayak it takes longer to get out of the boat - this makes you more susceptible to strainers

#2 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible w/ getting pinned(vertical).

#3 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible to shoulder injury

#4 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible to smashing your face underwater

#5 - while this hasn't yet been fully proven -wearing a skirt causes shrinkage of the male genitals

#6 - In a kayak - you start with a bombproof roll - so you never learn how to effectively swim the gnar.

#7 - In a kayak - you don't have 8inchs of foam underneath your butt, so you are more susceptible to back injury from boofing flat.

#8 - In a kayak - everything is easy, so you have to run the brown all the time... and history shows that running the brown all the time - will take u down.

#9 - a swamped kayak floating down the river, takes forever to get to shore, and is a serious hazard to anyone down stream of it

#10 - In a kayak -if you get knocked out.... you will not come out of your boat(see gorilla a few years back)

#11 - in a kayak - your line of sight is lower to the water than a canoe - thus giving you less time to see potential hazards ahead

#12 - in a kayak - you are much more susceptible to a boat that is bigger than you, running you over( canoe)



.......ok some of these may be a stretch - but you get the idea......

FullGnarlzOC wrote:my statement about OC1 being safer than K1 came from the following....

#1 - In a kayak it takes longer to get out of the boat - this makes you more susceptible to strainers

#2 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible w/ getting pinned(vertical).

#3 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible to shoulder injury

#4 - In a kayak - you are much more susceptible to smashing your face underwater

#5 - while this hasn't yet been fully proven -wearing a skirt causes shrinkage of the male genitals

#6 - In a kayak - you start with a bombproof roll - so you never learn how to effectively swim the gnar.

#7 - In a kayak - you don't have 8inchs of foam underneath your butt, so you are more susceptible to back injury from boofing flat.

#8 - In a kayak - everything is easy, so you have to run the brown all the time... and history shows that running the brown all the time - will take u down.

#9 - a swamped kayak floating down the river, takes forever to get to shore, and is a serious hazard to anyone down stream of it

#10 - In a kayak -if you get knocked out.... you will not come out of your boat(see gorilla a few years back)

#11 - in a kayak - your line of sight is lower to the water than a canoe - thus giving you less time to see potential hazards ahead

#12 - in a kayak - you are much more susceptible to a boat that is bigger than you, running you over( canoe)



.......ok some of these may be a stretch - but you get the idea......

In reply:

1. Only because you're a midget Tommy, full size people have trouble getting their legs out of OC's too.
2. I think I can see your logic, but I'd be interested to see you prove it.
3. Fairly Accurate, Unless you use poor technique...
4. That's just blatantly not true
5. Boooooooooring
6. Well, you didn't start canoing with a bombproof roll, i think you may be extrapolating your experience.
7. In a canoe, it's harder to control how flat you land, and attempting to plug/melt drops of any significant height appears to result in near certain over-rotation and the related graceless headplant
8. You get ego-fueled boneheads in all branches of paddling, Isn't that right?
9. Vaguely true, but a swamped canoe isn't *that* much safer or easier to rescue than a kayak with two stern bags and a bow bag though
10. If unconcious in the water you're seriously boned, at least attached to a massive bit of brightly coloured plastic floating plastic you're going to be found quickly by any would be rescuers (Plus, if you can come out without a concious decision, your outfitting is not safe IMO)
11. Can't Argue
12. You could probably manouvre out of the way though (swamped canoe == slower than raft heading downstream)

I think, on re-reading, that what I meant to say was "Shhhhhhhhh, Grown ups are talking"

krikket - why dont you just paddle a kayak... u already wear skirt... c1ers are just confused about there boating sexuality

Tommy you tease!

So says a C/OC/K boater!

FullGnarlzOC wrote:krikket - why dont you just paddle a kayak... u already wear skirt... c1ers are just confused about there boating sexuality

I like it better when i'm on my knees...

well gee... now your making the rest of us uncomfortable

You asked...

Let's move beyond the 'should you...' stage and on to which kind of boat you should try out. Your height/weight is useful info., for us to give you boat suggestions.

The open boat and C-1 choices are both plentiful. Blackfly Canoes have open designs for every 'weight class' and have bomber designs. Most modern, large K creekboats make for good conversions. I paddle both C-1 and OC-1 and mostly agree with Fullgnarlz about the safety aspects of open boating.

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jatakasawa wrote:Let's move beyond the 'should you...' stage and on to which kind of boat you should try out. Your height/weight is useful info., for us to give you boat suggestions.

The open boat and C-1 choices are both plentiful. Blackfly Canoes have open designs for every 'weight class' and have bomber designs. Most modern, large K creekboats make for good conversions. I paddle both C-1 and OC-1 and mostly agree with Fullgnarlz about the safety aspects of open boating.

I am 5’7” and 166 pounds. I have a oc1 friend that has a couple of boats i can try out. His Black fly option looks creeky and so does the ledge. My goal would be to get back on creeks after and if i gain the skills. I am not however interested in a quiver of cboats but one c1 and an oc1 is doable, I dont know if i should get a stable boat and or a squirrelie one to learn in. so, in the word of Donald Rumsfeld “we know about the knowns and unknowns but not the unknown unknowns” That is to say i may not know the right questions.

Option is hand down best bang for the buck right now w/ regards to plastic creekers. Predictable, stable, solid all-around performance, and reliable(w/ respects to boat integrity) ---> especially at your weight range.

The only downside to the option is....you'd be hard pressed to find a used one for sale

FullGnarlzOC wrote:Option is hand down best bang for the buck right now w/ regards to plastic creekers. Predictable, stable, solid all-around performance, and reliable(w/ respects to boat integrity) ---> especially at your weight range.

The only downside to the option is....you'd be hard pressed to find a used one for sale

Just to be contrary... I'm sure you could pick up a cheap second hand prelude that had plenty of life in it for a fraction of the price of a new Option.

More than that, If the US price for the Big Dog Force Turret is anywhere near comparable to the UK price; it could wipe the floor with the Option on value for money (and I would be shocked if it didn't wipe the floor with it's performance too)...

It will be interesting to hear the comparisons for the Big Dog boats vs Blackfly Canoes - The Option / Ion / Octane / Blackfly are all great boats, and a great value. With shipping what it is I suspect Big Dog will have a hard time pricing lower.

The GOOD news is lots of choices:)

krittet.... we're talkin about CANOES here......dude


- As for the prelude - not a boat one should recommend to a beginner- they will have a rough of it(more than they already will), develop bad habits, bad form, and slow progression, IMO

IF beginners want to get into creeking - you get an Option - have a reliable boat(performance, stability, structure) that you can progressive to class 5 with and a boat that will take care of ur azz when you get there.


half the money on the prelude will cost you more later when ur payin hospital bill - from no fault at yours...other than buying a prelude in the first place