Fast kayaks for potential conversion?

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:02 pm

I've been looking for a shorter C-1 recently, with some more maneuverability... Looking around the local Craigslist gives me some options for kayaks to convert-- the best deal seems to be on a Wavesport X, with more than one RPM showing up from time to time at a good price. There's a Dagger Juice 7.1 at a slightly less affordable level (for my very limited budget, that is)... The shortest boat available seems to be a Perception Jib-- which at 7ish feet is probably very easy to kick around, but I'm feeling like it might be slow.
In fact, I'm feeling like all of these might be slow. I've heard it said several times that dedicated C-1's have the stability you need for a higher center of gravity and the glide you need for a single paddle if you want to go anywhere... a kayak conversion might be tippy and slow, and not track well. What are people's thoughts on kayaks that might not feel too slow after conversion? The Wavesport X seemed reasonable, it's longer at almost 9 feet, but it has a planing hull. The flat bottom doesn't bode well for speed outside of a surfing situation, does it? Any ideas?
The LL Remix is advertised as being fast... can anyone speak to this?

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:21 pm

i use to paddle an x. it was ok but not great. best thing i ever did was replace it with an h3255. i bet you could find a deal on one of those.

cadster · Post by **cadster** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:23 pm

I have fun paddling a short and stable conversion, large Fluid Flirt.

Being short you get a lot of feedback on whether you're using good technique. You also get used to the convenience of throwing the boat inside most vehicles and not using roof racks.

I might be concerned with speed if I was boating rivers of more than a few thousand CFS.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Speed can be fun. But one of the things that will make you a fast paddler is paddling a slow boat! As cadster points out, they force good technique. Paddle something short for a couple of weeks and then hop in a longer boat

My $.02 -

The X will be "OK" - not fast.
The juice looks slow from here
Jib? No. That's a kid sized plastic squirt kayak. Unless you are very small, you won't fit and it will be SLOW.
Remix - I'd love to try one - looks awesome
RPM - maybe fast, but how is your roll? You'll be doing a lot of that. A LOT.
H3 - looks great, haven't tried one...

Post by **PAC** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:59 pm

concur with all above

The X is also narrow with limited leg spread - tippy.
Jib? Unless you are really small no way! No leg spread there either.
Flirt - slow but a hoot to play in.
Remix - everything I have heard is good about it.
RPM - scott's "A LOT" is an understatement!
H3 - I liked this one. I paddled the largest version and only for a short time!

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:05 pm

I lasted in a friends RPM only about 5 minutes. In an eddy I flipped and over-rolled into three successive rolls before I could stop. Yet, he ran big water and moderate creeks... Maybe being 60# lighter than me made a difference...

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:46 pm

What would people say about ease of rolling the RPM compared to the Gyramax? Since I finally figured out what I was supposed to be doing i've rolled the Gyramax about 25 times on a lake without missing once, and from various setups etc... however I have never done a combat roll where I truly wasn't expecting to go over so I can't speak much to how good my roll really is. On a scale of "reasonable" to "WOOZ" just how unstable IS the RPM? The issue I have with the WOOZ is actually not that it's unstable (I think at 160# I am the perfect weight for that boat) so much as that it's unpredictable. It feels tippy but I'm reasonably confident and comfortable... until then I lean a tiny bit too far as I reach out for an eddy and it just flips to the onside with little warning. Is the RPM that squirrelly?
The Remix by all accounts seems like something I should keep an eye out for... but RPM's are plentiful and cheap.

There's also a Fluid for sale, 65 gallon, 7'3"... the seller calls it stable and fast but these things are 1. all relative, faster than another 7 foot boat could still be slow, and 2. could have no basis in reality, he IS looking to sell it after all

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:03 pm

What I take from those comments is that people are trying to tell you that RPMs are too tippy be much use/fun, unless you prefer rolling practice to actual paddling.

The Foreplay and larger Score are conversions that some have been happy with and should be available cheap?

Pat.

cadster · Post by **cadster** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:38 pm

I don't know why somebody would convert an RPM.

Seems to me the Atom is too similar.

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:14 pm

Bought my first-ever brand-new boat this season . . . a Dagger Axiom for my wife. Sadly, she loves it.

That thing would be an AWESOME conversion.

pdown2 · Post by **pdown2** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:08 am

I third the h3255....or even better the Burn in a L. I think you'd like that one. Its not blazing fast but it ain't slow, plus super stable and a GREAT conversion.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:43 am

the RPM was too easy to roll - both over then back up. lot's of better choices. I had a Whiplash that was a better choice. lots of newer better choices. If you want fast, you might try the Gyramaxes newer (ha!) sibling - the Slasher.

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:54 am

Back in April Oopsiflippled ask a similar - what would be a faster and looser playboat than his Big EZ. You might look at Bernie's response. He suggested a Pyranhna Z.One as the fastest, loosest hull he had ever been in. His comment is on the page http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... e&start=15

If you look at Eddyflower you can see the write-up. The URL is http://www.eddyflower.com/ShowBoat.aspx?BoatId=597

If by chance you convert either a Z.One or a Dagger Axiom, please do a write-up and post it. There was a good review of both of these boats, as kayaks, in Paddler a few months back.

Marc

insolence · Post by **insolence** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:41 am

what do you want? really fast boats will be not very playful. For fast playboats I have no idea

but if a whitewater boat is wanted, try the finkenmeister from robson - better than any conversion ever can be

otherwise, the remix makes a good and more or less fast conversion and feels quite good, I had a test ride in a friend's boat. The fastest thing besides a slalom race boat is the old eskimo kendo evolution, but this boat isn't manufactured anymore and it shows very special behaviour as a C1 conversion. I love it, but many others might hate or not even be able to paddle it (only for small persons)

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:18 am

Fast boats:

LL Jefe & Remix (the remix is blisteringly fast),
Dagger Nomad (Fastest of the "Full Creekboats"),
Wavesport Habitiat (not amazingly fast, but a boat thats considered to be a better converted than as a kayak; might help you get one cheap),
Eskimo Salto Evo & Cerro (the eskimo boats are as tough as old boots too, and the Cerro is like a less gimmicky Green Boat)

Fast playboats:

Dagger Crazy 88,
Riot Air,
Dragorossi Fish... (Note, they're all narrow and edgy, not exactly confidence inspiring C1's)

If you want a fast boat, then you can't go wrong with most of the medium or large Creekboats. Some are faster than others but all will be fast enough, If you want a fast playboat, then you'll need to try lots of kayaks known to be fast to decide which are right for you as there are so many variables, (I've got a Crazy and an FX both are fast on the wave, but the Crazy is fast on the water too).