I recently picked up a fanatic for a few bucks and im starting to outfit it, but im running into some questions. It has glassed in ropes for thigh straps and after trying them i felt like i just kept falling out of the boat, so i finagled a lap belt out of the straps i put together. Do many slalom boaters use lap belts or is it sort of a no no? And yes it is built with quick release straps. Secondly how far should my knees be going under the front deck? And lastly i feel like me feet are getting crushed can the saddle be up to or above the cockpit rim, right know its at maybe 5.5 inches? Any help would be great.
Griffen
Saddle and straps question for a Fanatic
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griffen_williams
- C Guru
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Check the location of the thigh strap mounts. I try for the rear mounts to be just a bit in front of my hip joints, and the front mounts should be maybe 6 inches back of your knees. Some people put the front mounts too far back. The straps should cross your thighs at maybe a 35 degree angle to the thigh bones. They should NOT cross at anywhere near a 90 degree angle. The diagonal strap path not only distributes the force of the straps better, it makes it easier to get into and out of the straps without any release buckle.
Where should your knees and your butt be? I'm 6' 5" so I had no choice but to have my butt near the back of the cockpit rim, and my knees maybe 9" under the front rim. (I'm giving dimensions from memory.) I like the knees splayed out and supported by a triangular knee block glued to the center pillar. It sounds like you may be a more normal-sized person. It may help for your coccyx to be 1.5" from the back of the rim, to allow you to lean back more easily.
On the height of the seat, mine was 5.75 inches in a Dagger Zealot. My feet rest on their tops, on the bottom of the boat. With size 15 feet, there is no way I could bend my ankles and use toe blocks. I think you could raise your seat to about 6 inches, but no more. Slalom boats are not designed for high seats. Whatever you do with your feet and ankles, regular paddling and short rests will increase your pain tolerance.
I'm not a fan of lap belts. If you get the thigh straps angled right and if you use knee spreader blocks; and if you have a little support behind your butt from the seat, you will be tight in the boat. The boat will be lighter if you ditch unnecessary release buckles. I don't have any buckles at all on the thigh straps of either of my c-1s. Their tension is adjusted with short polyester rope segments grommeted into holes in the ends of the straps.
If this makes sense and you want pictures, get me an email address. The boats are inside and it would be easy to take shots of the outfitting.
Where should your knees and your butt be? I'm 6' 5" so I had no choice but to have my butt near the back of the cockpit rim, and my knees maybe 9" under the front rim. (I'm giving dimensions from memory.) I like the knees splayed out and supported by a triangular knee block glued to the center pillar. It sounds like you may be a more normal-sized person. It may help for your coccyx to be 1.5" from the back of the rim, to allow you to lean back more easily.
On the height of the seat, mine was 5.75 inches in a Dagger Zealot. My feet rest on their tops, on the bottom of the boat. With size 15 feet, there is no way I could bend my ankles and use toe blocks. I think you could raise your seat to about 6 inches, but no more. Slalom boats are not designed for high seats. Whatever you do with your feet and ankles, regular paddling and short rests will increase your pain tolerance.
I'm not a fan of lap belts. If you get the thigh straps angled right and if you use knee spreader blocks; and if you have a little support behind your butt from the seat, you will be tight in the boat. The boat will be lighter if you ditch unnecessary release buckles. I don't have any buckles at all on the thigh straps of either of my c-1s. Their tension is adjusted with short polyester rope segments grommeted into holes in the ends of the straps.
If this makes sense and you want pictures, get me an email address. The boats are inside and it would be easy to take shots of the outfitting.
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John Coraor
- CBoats Addict
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I would second most of what ezwater said, with just a couple of changes.
I would encourage you to use either fastex or quick release buckles or velcro on the straps. I agree with ezwater that typically if you flip and have to bail you can back your knees out of the straps without releasing them. I can't remember ever having to release my buckles to exit. However, if you were ever in a pin, particularly a vertical pin, this might not be possible, and then, if you didn't have a relatively easy and quick release method such as buckles or velcro, you're toast. Like an insurance policy, you don't expect to need them, but it's nice to have them if you ever do.
Also, regarding seat height, I typcially paddle with a 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 in. seat. I don't feel very stable when my C-1 seat is as high as ezwater's, and, yes, my legs fall asleep fairly quickly. When I was 20-something and training in the boat at least daily, I could last for an hour and one-half before needing a knee break. As a 53-year-old weekend warrior, I'm lucky if I can last 15 minutes before crying uncle. However, paddling hard and continuously does help to maintain the blood flow and allows added time in the boat. Its the sitting in eddies that kill you.
P.S. I recently bought a used 3.5 meter slalom C-1 with a 2 in. seat. I understand that this is what all the hot racers are paddling with nowadays. (I immediately raised it to my standard height.)
John
I would encourage you to use either fastex or quick release buckles or velcro on the straps. I agree with ezwater that typically if you flip and have to bail you can back your knees out of the straps without releasing them. I can't remember ever having to release my buckles to exit. However, if you were ever in a pin, particularly a vertical pin, this might not be possible, and then, if you didn't have a relatively easy and quick release method such as buckles or velcro, you're toast. Like an insurance policy, you don't expect to need them, but it's nice to have them if you ever do.
Also, regarding seat height, I typcially paddle with a 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 in. seat. I don't feel very stable when my C-1 seat is as high as ezwater's, and, yes, my legs fall asleep fairly quickly. When I was 20-something and training in the boat at least daily, I could last for an hour and one-half before needing a knee break. As a 53-year-old weekend warrior, I'm lucky if I can last 15 minutes before crying uncle. However, paddling hard and continuously does help to maintain the blood flow and allows added time in the boat. Its the sitting in eddies that kill you.
P.S. I recently bought a used 3.5 meter slalom C-1 with a 2 in. seat. I understand that this is what all the hot racers are paddling with nowadays. (I immediately raised it to my standard height.)
John
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TheKrikkitWars
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Not neccesarily, the olympic champion Martikan apparently uses a 6" saddle (despite his boat being amongst the narrowest and tippiest of c1 slalom boats in currently in production). It's all about your paddling style and how you've been/are being coached.John Coraor wrote:P.S. I recently bought a used 3.5 meter slalom C-1 with a 2 in. seat. I understand that this is what all the hot racers are paddling with nowadays. (I immediately raised it to my standard height.)
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
My seat is at 5.5". Never had a problem with stability. On the other hand, I'm only 5'7" (but my CG is high - skinny legs, big upper body).
My Outfitting
My Outfitting
Bob P
Jon Lugbill demonstrated to me one time that he did not need thigh straps to control his Fanatic from the support he got from his knee cups and hip pads. With that in mind, I outfit my boats to have a snug fit at the hips and knees. I have a Fanatic '92 that I originally outfitted with a 6.5" saddle, thinking that the extra volume would allow me to kneel higher. Alas, I ended up cutting the saddle back down to my usual 5.5". That height gives me the best balance in the boat. You can start your saddle height as high as you like, then keep trimming the saddle down about 1/2" at a time until you have great balance.
When you trim the boat, have the saddle placed so the boat sits fairly flat. If you sit further back, the stern edges keep engaging, making you feel like you are getting tripped up too often. If the saddle is too far forward, then it is more difficult to engage the stern edges for nice stern pivot turns. My saddle is 8" long, measured from the back of the coaming. I sit all the way back against the saddle and have really good control over the edges. I believe the saddle is 9" wide.
The hip pads sit right at the hips and kind of wrap around the back some. My thigh strap anchors are located in front of the hips--more toward the top of the thighs--just under the deck, and just in front of mid-thigh on the bottom of the hull. The floor anchors are a little wide so when I pull the thigh straps snug, they pull the thighs out some. That helps keep my knees wide. The knee cups help wedge my knees wider and pads the outside of the knees for best support. Here is a link to images:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4 ... 0371739045
Hope this helps.
KNeal
When you trim the boat, have the saddle placed so the boat sits fairly flat. If you sit further back, the stern edges keep engaging, making you feel like you are getting tripped up too often. If the saddle is too far forward, then it is more difficult to engage the stern edges for nice stern pivot turns. My saddle is 8" long, measured from the back of the coaming. I sit all the way back against the saddle and have really good control over the edges. I believe the saddle is 9" wide.
The hip pads sit right at the hips and kind of wrap around the back some. My thigh strap anchors are located in front of the hips--more toward the top of the thighs--just under the deck, and just in front of mid-thigh on the bottom of the hull. The floor anchors are a little wide so when I pull the thigh straps snug, they pull the thighs out some. That helps keep my knees wide. The knee cups help wedge my knees wider and pads the outside of the knees for best support. Here is a link to images:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4 ... 0371739045
Hope this helps.
KNeal
C-boats Moderator
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
I agree with Kneal in that my Zealot and Wide Ride are set up so that I am pretty tight in the boat as long as I am sitting upright and paddling forward. Because of my considerable height, my thighs are restrained by the cockpit rim as much as by the thigh straps. The thigh straps engage only during marked leans to the side, and of course when upside down. 
Because cockpit rim size is not easily adjusted, smaller people may have to rely more on knee blocks, knee cups, and hip pads. With my size 15 feet, I would not risk hip pads that would extend inward and impede exit. But fortunately, my rear end is wide enough to properly engage hip pads without inward extensions.
Because cockpit rim size is not easily adjusted, smaller people may have to rely more on knee blocks, knee cups, and hip pads. With my size 15 feet, I would not risk hip pads that would extend inward and impede exit. But fortunately, my rear end is wide enough to properly engage hip pads without inward extensions.