C-Forum

any views/opinions???

http://www.monocacycanoe.org/mccboard/m ... /2691.html

If the ends are higher, it may indeed be an early Hahn. I'd certainly like to see (and have:) an image of it...

If it's not a Hahn, perhaps a Lettman or Natan (aka Yugo)?

I'll get some pics for you, then we can speculate even more...
the "bumps" on the ends are pretty small- maybe 3 inches long, and maybe an inch high. Like I said in the other post, there aren't any sort of "details" on the deck- but my understanding of early boat copying is that these were sometimes removed to make the boats easier to lay up.

Ask and ye shall recieve... more than you asked for. The brown/white boat is the unknown. The ends are slightly higher than the middle. We measured the width at right about 30 inches, or 76cm- which, based on the list of boats on this website, doesn't help. The green boat is a Noah Atlantis (sorry for the not-so-great pictures, but we didn't want to try and get it down from the rafters), and there's also a Hydra Duet in the Starrk-Moon museum....(the white boat is a holoform, the black boat is an old carbon/kevlar Pyranha rodeo boat (protoype?), abd the yellow and orange boat is an old P&H fiberglass whitewater boat...all kayaks) Feel free to use any of this pics for the c-1 database
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2308.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2309.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2310.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2311.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2312.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2314.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chasingrain.com/pictures/C-b ... G_2315.jpg[/img]

Thank you for all the great images!

I'm going to guess that it's a Natan C1 -2 (or Yugo 2), but anyone with Sue Taft's book (I can't recall who I loaned my copy too!) should be able to tell if it's the same boat she has a picture of Dave Kurtz in or not....

If I mysteriously find my copy on my bookshelf (which I've looked over 5 times) I'll let folks know....

hey sir adam, in the paddle section, are you going to expand that as well, just curious because of the lettmann remark, they are still making some sweet paddles. they're huge like 200 mm by 550 or 500. anyway they feel really nice, and i have the link to the website.
cheers
-isaac

I seem to remember that Old Town was a selling a C-1 back in the 1970's when they were selling Berry Boats and it seemed to look a lot like that boat. Would have been heavy, probably with a polyester gel coat (retch). Top and bottom halves held together with plastic "H" channel. Or it could be I'm crazy.... Anybody remember?
Marc

As another hint, Brad told me it was traded in by someone from the State College area, so it's pretty likely that it was a built in one of the backyard shops up there- so a Natan 2 isn't a bad guess. They might even still have a mold for it laying around up there...

I sent one of the images to John Sweet, who is VERY knowledgable about boats of this era and has been very kind in sharing said knowledge with myself and this site...here's what he had to say:


-----------------------------------------
Hi Adam,

The only thing I can say for certain is that it is NOT a Natan boat. It looks like a late-60s, 80-cm C-1. Possibly a Pavel Bone design but that is just a guess. There were several imports in that era. It is not a Czech design, neither the 1965 model nor the later one, both of which had flatter decks.

Sorry I can't be of more help. JRS

-------------------------------------------

The State College area was a C1 hotbed in that time period, so almost anything is possible....

I'll be sending a letter to John Berry soon, and will try and include an image for him to look at as well, in case he has any thoughts.

I had an early 70's old town berry boat C-2 that I bought out of an old town catalog. The old town catalog also listed a C-1. My C-2 had a white rope through the hole near the end of the deck constructed just like this C-1 has. You could order different colors and the hull was always white and the deck a "you choose" solid color, like this C-1. That black line on the seam looks big for tape and tape would be gone by now. My C-2 looked the same, top and bottom halves held together with a black plastic "H" channel, bottom half (hull) white, top half (deck)colored and wide black line of "H" channel holding the two together. And the cockpit rims on my C-2 were white to match the hull although the deck was colored, just like here where we have a white cockpit rim on a colored deck matching a white hull. IF it is an old town C-1 from the early 70's, it's polyester and will break easy, like my C-2 did on memorial rock on the savage. Marc

That was my immediate first take on seeing the pix. White hull, white rim, colored deck, very typical appearance, but of course, a skilled "garage" builder -- of whom there were many -- could have copied the same scheme. Still, I would not take that boat around rocks ;-)

My first boat was a '70's Oldtown, & it did destruct. First C-1 was a McKnight-Hahn kevlar/epoxy; very flexy, but light & totally indestructo.

If it is an old town, it should have an old town logo molded into the deck in stand up relief, probably wood inserts in the floor in a parquet square pattern, and maybe modification of the rear of the cockpit rim if it was originally their "cockpit rim seat" design and the owner cut it out and put in a pedestal. I doubt it has any of that and is probably a copy, but I'd be interested to see if John Berry recognizes it as an old town copy. I know he dealt with them and should know if it is. Marc

OK, I got someone at old town to email me a gif of one page from their 1977 (they say although it seems like it should be from a few years earlier) catalog (page 19) and it's got pics of their fiberglass kayaks and white water canoes. It shows a C-1 that looks like this one called a "WENATCHEE". Says it meets ICF rules. Dimensions are 13'2" long, 33" wide, 13 1/2" deep, cockpit 21" x 17" and weight 48lbs. Price 595.00. says it has "fiberglass-sandwich" hull which is old town for polyester glass and end grain balsa squares that you can see through the glass that looks like parquet flooring. Wish I knew how to attach the image, have it here in gif format. Marc[/img]

If you can, e-mail it to me and I'll post it up for you...and in the CBoats pages if that's OK:)

info at cboats.net

I had a nice chat with John Berry this eveing. He's very sure it is one of his boats, a "MCC1" (Modified Czech C1)...it started out as two bows from different Czechs and evolved from there. He made several 'red' ones, like the one noted, and recognizes the foam seat as well. It it IS one of his boats, we can find out for sure by removing the seat-a build tag will be under it right on "the keel line".

John is being very gracious and sending me a bunch more on early designs as well!