Seda Supermax - reconditioning?

danriverdale · Post by **danriverdale** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:49 pm

I just assumed stewardship of an old Seda Supermax that doesn't appear to have ever been paddled much. Having read through some past posts about Seda construction in the late 70s I'm nervous about getting to ambitious with repairs.

Any guidance y'all can provide is much appreciated.

Cockpit rim is separating (as expected). Can I get away with glass tape on the inside of the cockpit or should I work some glass under the rim as well? Thinking that just regular adhesive tape under the rim is enough.

The hull has almost uniformly lost all of its epoxy/resin and the outer layer of cloth is bare ... but virtually unscuffed. Any recommendations on cleaning/prepping for recoating? There is definitely a little staining on the cloth from years of storage. And what, if anything, should I use for recoating the exposed cloth?

No outfitting or even evidence of past outfitting inside other than the original pedestal which has become rather hard and brittle - I'll likely replace.

The deck is in excellent shape if dull and chipped a little. The seams are also 95% OK. There is a soft spot in the hull about four inches in diameter (though not perfectly round).

Thanks!!

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:39 pm

Glass tape inside the cockpit should be enough, but actually it might work better if you do the work with segments of bias-cut cloth. I say that because the diagonal orientation of bias-cut allows it to conform to the relatively sharp rim/hill angle, and also leaves twice as many glass fibers crossing the joint. You can also use bias cut Nylon, polyester, or even Kevlar if you have the patience to cut it. But just bias cut E-glass is OK.

The fabric on the hull may look as if it has lost all its resin, but I'm sure there is a good deal of resin left in it. To keep things cheap, you could apply a high quality polyurethane varnish, one picked for hardness. I have refinished two boats by rolling on West epoxy, but that is expensive and requires sanding as the final step, because epoxy does not self-level the way varnishes do.

As for that soft spot, see if you can get at it from inside the boat. Three concentric layers of glass, or better yet Kevlar, the largest applied first, should be sufficient. No particular need to "bag" for smoothness unless your leg is going to be going over the soft spot. If you have to patch outside, use glass, not Kevlar.

danriverdale · Post by **danriverdale** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:22 am

I just shot some photos tonight and was surprised again at just how clean this 30 year old boat is. Looking forward to putting a couple coats of epoxy on the hull and reinforcing the cockpit rim.
http://picasaweb.google.com/swanson.dal ... rMaxC11978
The first couple photos show how much cloth is exposed - what would cause the least damage to the cloth and clean the best before I get into rolling on the epoxy?

danriverdale · Post by **danriverdale** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:32 am

I think I'll stick with simple glass tape on the cockpit and it's mostly in reasonable condition.
I will check in on West Marin epoxy ... I've got a friend who recently did some major work on his sailboat - crossing my fingers that he used an epoxy I can use (unlikely).
And if anyone can recommend an alternate/less expensive epoxy I'm all ears.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:41 pm

Your pics of the deck and hull have the look of a boat that has been stored outside for some time. You may be looking at the results of UV breakdown of the resin as well as some general weathering. If so, I'm not certain whether there is anything that you can do to reverse the damage to the layup structurally, but suggestions that you've already received might have some cosmetic effect on it.

Regarding repair of the coaming that has come loose, I agree with ezwater that glass strips cut on the bias is a better choice than seam tape for both the reasons that he cited. Regardless of which material you choose, make sure that you sand thoroughly the entire area to be repaired. You want to sand through the surface layer of resin (gel coat if it has one) and expose the fibers underneath.

John

semdoug · Post by **semdoug** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:59 pm

I'm curious, was this project ever completed? If so, how did it turn out.

danriverdale · Post by **danriverdale** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:04 am

semdoug wrote:I'm curious, was this project ever completed? If so, how did it turn out.

As with any whitewater boat it's always "in repair" - but I have had it on water 3 times.

I tried the spar varnish first since it seemed like a reasonable idea and actually worked out a little but didn't protect the cloth from rocks. If I were prepared to reapply varnish on a very regular basis (after every 3rd to 5th use) and were only paddling deep water I think it would have been fine. Test drove it on the Nanty and was fun but tough without a decent skirt and no thigh straps.

So I did another wash on the hull and came back with a slow curing epoxy I applied with a brush. That worked really well. Unfortunately I was in too much of a hurry and let my son paddle it on the Smith during a recent release after only appying one thin coat. The one and only rock he boofed accidentally cut a nasty scar down the hull - just through the epoxy and no serious damage to the fibers. I need to hurry up and get 2 more coats on it.

Haven't repaired the cockpit rim yet which I may get started on tomorrow. Lots of outfitting still to do and am going to triple-up the bow and stern pillars with minicell as recommended - thanks for the advice Tom!

Will be an excellent boat I think for my son to learn a single blade roll which he's anxious to work on in the pool this winter. It has been a blast, but definitely not something I can paddle comfortably for hours on end.

I'll see if I can get photos as I work on the coaming.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:29 pm

I wish you had brushed on the epoxy before using the varnish. The epoxy will never be enough to protect the cloth when you or your son really smack something, but it will help to penetrate and surround starved cloth fibers at the surface so that the entire laminate is strengthened.

A reasonable goal for your project would be for your son to decide whether he wants to paddle slalom racing boats. Then you can go shopping for a better, more modern c-1 design where you only have local patching, and don't have to face resurfacing entire areas of the hull.

And no, I am not yet ready to sell my first-one-out-of-the-mold Zealot.

danriverdale · Post by **danriverdale** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:31 pm

Hind sight is definitely 20/20 and I wish I'd skipped the varnish idea as well. But it was clear that it would never again be a competition boat and I was just trying to figure out the easiest and least costly route to getting it on the water for the precise purpose you suggested; as a platform to get hooked (or not) on slalom racing.

Did the same with my daughter who is currently racing a 30 year old Match wildwater kayak. BTW - any leads on 'classic' wildwater C1s or C2s would be appreciated!

semdoug · Post by **semdoug** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:34 pm

There is something to be said for having a boat that you don't really need to worry about. Your Supermax sounds like such a boat, good extra boat to have around and if it gets dinged-up it's no major loss.

On a somewhat related topic my wife's uncle recently built a sea kayak from a kit. It's plywood with fiberglass layed over as the finished exterior. For a guy with no fiberglass experience he did a really nice job. He said much of the work was done using West System epoxy and a squeegee. The sqeegee gave the boat a nice even epoxy surface and helped to squeeze the epoxy into the cloth. Maybe that would work for your Supermax?

C-Forum

Seda Supermax - reconditioning?

Seda Supermax - reconditioning?

Great info and detail - thanks!

and THANKS for the guidance, ezwater!