Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slalom)?
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Mike W.
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Trim looks good to me.
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Cheers Mike - the stern looks lower in some other photos I didn't post, but that's probably because my body position was all wrong, and/or Phil was trying to take interesting shots rather than the boat just cruising level....
I'll be trying it in a bit more flow tomorrow night, and then my first race on Saturday
I'll be trying it in a bit more flow tomorrow night, and then my first race on Saturday
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
The faster you are moving forward, the drag will pull the stern under more. I agree with Mike that the trim looked okay in those photos. Keep sharing the images and hopefully, a REAL slalom racer will speak his/her thoughts.
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"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
No more photos, but I have been out a couple more times.
Wednesday at club night on the artificial course - much much easier to paddle in the outflow than the small boat I have been borrowing, working pretty well through the gates on the moving but relatively flat water. Then took it up onto the course, launched OK (not perfect but better than the first few times I tried to launch my Ocooe there!), maybe scraped the entry gate with the stern (when a prem paddler tells you he's done the same a few times you don't feel quite so bad!). Broke out below the first hole, crossed and ran into the eddy by the second one where I messed up and rolled, and then got cramp so had to get out a bit sharp! Had got out on the island so put back in above the first hole instead of at the launch ramp and worked my way down the course, making several crosses and even getting some gates, although I was getting in the way of the guys training more seriously so kept going.
Second run started badly, sliding off the launch ramp I missed my T-grip and fell in, found the grip and rolled up just in time to get sucked into the pump hole and swam. Next launch was OK (think I scraped the entry gate again). made some eddies and some gates, crossed on the towback of the first hole, all was going pretty well until I caught an edge on the back straight and missed a couple of rolls so had to swim the outflow down to the steps.
I got a bit wet but the boat felt much easier in the boily water although I caught the edges a couple of times. The Pinkston AWWC is really short and doesn't have huge head but manages to make some pretty good features and nightmare boiling eddies that are really hard to read because the water is so clear (closed system and the water is filtered), it is harder than anything I'm likely to race on for a while, although I've been paddling it in OC1 for a year now.
Saturday was my first race in C1, as an open competitor at Fairnilee on the Tweed. Practice went reasonably well. The course designer had positioned 2 upstream gates (7 and 16) river left in areas that weren't actually eddies, just slow flow - they were causing problems for everyone but at least kayakers and lefties could use a reverse sweep.... I just ended up a bit low every time, until on my second timed run I leant a bit too far into my cross bow at 16 and ended up swimming. I was a bit disappointed, but checking my card against the 2 competitors in Div 3 I noticed that one of them had taken a swim at gate 3 on his first run, and his second run was a second slower than my first run, both about 12 seconds down on the other guy, but kind of suggesting div 3 might be the right place for me. I probably lost at least 5 seconds at upstream gates 7 and 16, but I didn't get upstream 4 very high either. 9,10 and 11 were all upstream in eddies and 18 was also upstream - some people thought there were too many ups! (18 gate course). Perhaps part of the reason I messed 16 up was because there must have been 200 yards or more between gates 14 and 15 (common feature apparently due to the shape of the rapid there) which was a straight sprint, I think I arrived on that second run with way more speed than I had previously and just got my timing and edging all wrong as a result!
Sunday I was back because it was a double event, some gates had been moved and heavy rain brought the river up a bit overnight so it was noticeably faster. Gate 7 had become a downstream as part of a stagger set leading to the middle fall, gates 15 and 16 had swapped sides and directions, so 15 was now an upsteam in the river left eddy that 16 just missed on Saturday, whilst 16 was midstream down close below it. The 9,10,11 upstream sequence was changed around, the numbering on 9 and 10 was reversed I think (i.e. same gates in same places but to be taken in opposite order), and same with 11 and 12 so now 11 was downstream and 12 upstream - basically you had to cross the river 4 times between 9 and 13. In free practice I mis-read the flow between 15 and 16 and came out of 15 way too high, passing outside of 16, my mistake then was to try to get back through 17 but in going for my power stroke must have dropped the upstream edge, missed my roll again and swam. Second practice run went OK except that I ended up way high on 18 and had to do a double spin around to go through it. First race run started promising - I clipped 2 or 3 (again!) but had my best entry to upstream 4 all weekend, unfortunately I made a mess of the stagger between 5 and 6 and in danger of missing 7 I tried a big powerstroke but dropped my edge again - this time I felt one of the straps come off as I tried to roll and knowing the middle drop was coming up I got out ASAP! My second run went a lot better, clipped a few gates and a bit low on some upstreams but it was all pretty good until I clipped right pole on 16 sending it swinging to my left side - there was no way to get back to it and my line was already taking me through 17 so I picked up a 50 there. I was 10 seconds faster down the course than I had been on Saturday so that was pretty promising. The wind really got up on Sunday and I was surprised not to have more touches or missed gates - I'm pretty sure the reason I hit 16 was that the wind swung it onto my paddle/arm. I saw a friend have an otherwise clean run spoiled when gate 12 was blown onto him after he had passed through and was moving away, but that's how if goes, everyone was having similar problems. Only 1 Div3 entry to compare with on Sunday, he was a few seconds quicker but also had a 50 on his best run (3 of them on his other run) so the results were close, although I was behind. Hopefully I can use these results to get ranked in Div 3 now.
The boat handled really well throughout - the mistakes that lead to my swims are all things I recognise that I do in kayaks and my Ocoee and usually get away with (except too much lean into a cross bow planted into flow instead of eddy - I often fall out of the Ocoee doing that). Crucially getting from gate 3 to 4 I had to go wide onto a seam that wanted to suck the tail down but it was quite manageable, and the same taking the middle drop through gate 8 on Sunday when 9 was on the left (when it was on the right I was leaving the seam immediately to cross the eddy- it was a long way across, the gate was almost in the next chute) - so it is really giving me confidence when the tail goes squirty I am able to keep it under control and get the boat flat again real quick.
Also of great importance was that long sprint from 14 to 15, the first few times I was needing an occasional cross forward, but I quickly realised that I was doing it more for confidence than because I really needed it, and although I think I always needed a power pry or 2, by the end of the weekend I was sprinting the whole distance with on side strokes only - I have never managed to drive a C1 so far without taking a cross forward before so that's really promising!
I really like this boat!
Wednesday at club night on the artificial course - much much easier to paddle in the outflow than the small boat I have been borrowing, working pretty well through the gates on the moving but relatively flat water. Then took it up onto the course, launched OK (not perfect but better than the first few times I tried to launch my Ocooe there!), maybe scraped the entry gate with the stern (when a prem paddler tells you he's done the same a few times you don't feel quite so bad!). Broke out below the first hole, crossed and ran into the eddy by the second one where I messed up and rolled, and then got cramp so had to get out a bit sharp! Had got out on the island so put back in above the first hole instead of at the launch ramp and worked my way down the course, making several crosses and even getting some gates, although I was getting in the way of the guys training more seriously so kept going.
Second run started badly, sliding off the launch ramp I missed my T-grip and fell in, found the grip and rolled up just in time to get sucked into the pump hole and swam. Next launch was OK (think I scraped the entry gate again). made some eddies and some gates, crossed on the towback of the first hole, all was going pretty well until I caught an edge on the back straight and missed a couple of rolls so had to swim the outflow down to the steps.
I got a bit wet but the boat felt much easier in the boily water although I caught the edges a couple of times. The Pinkston AWWC is really short and doesn't have huge head but manages to make some pretty good features and nightmare boiling eddies that are really hard to read because the water is so clear (closed system and the water is filtered), it is harder than anything I'm likely to race on for a while, although I've been paddling it in OC1 for a year now.
Saturday was my first race in C1, as an open competitor at Fairnilee on the Tweed. Practice went reasonably well. The course designer had positioned 2 upstream gates (7 and 16) river left in areas that weren't actually eddies, just slow flow - they were causing problems for everyone but at least kayakers and lefties could use a reverse sweep.... I just ended up a bit low every time, until on my second timed run I leant a bit too far into my cross bow at 16 and ended up swimming. I was a bit disappointed, but checking my card against the 2 competitors in Div 3 I noticed that one of them had taken a swim at gate 3 on his first run, and his second run was a second slower than my first run, both about 12 seconds down on the other guy, but kind of suggesting div 3 might be the right place for me. I probably lost at least 5 seconds at upstream gates 7 and 16, but I didn't get upstream 4 very high either. 9,10 and 11 were all upstream in eddies and 18 was also upstream - some people thought there were too many ups! (18 gate course). Perhaps part of the reason I messed 16 up was because there must have been 200 yards or more between gates 14 and 15 (common feature apparently due to the shape of the rapid there) which was a straight sprint, I think I arrived on that second run with way more speed than I had previously and just got my timing and edging all wrong as a result!
Sunday I was back because it was a double event, some gates had been moved and heavy rain brought the river up a bit overnight so it was noticeably faster. Gate 7 had become a downstream as part of a stagger set leading to the middle fall, gates 15 and 16 had swapped sides and directions, so 15 was now an upsteam in the river left eddy that 16 just missed on Saturday, whilst 16 was midstream down close below it. The 9,10,11 upstream sequence was changed around, the numbering on 9 and 10 was reversed I think (i.e. same gates in same places but to be taken in opposite order), and same with 11 and 12 so now 11 was downstream and 12 upstream - basically you had to cross the river 4 times between 9 and 13. In free practice I mis-read the flow between 15 and 16 and came out of 15 way too high, passing outside of 16, my mistake then was to try to get back through 17 but in going for my power stroke must have dropped the upstream edge, missed my roll again and swam. Second practice run went OK except that I ended up way high on 18 and had to do a double spin around to go through it. First race run started promising - I clipped 2 or 3 (again!) but had my best entry to upstream 4 all weekend, unfortunately I made a mess of the stagger between 5 and 6 and in danger of missing 7 I tried a big powerstroke but dropped my edge again - this time I felt one of the straps come off as I tried to roll and knowing the middle drop was coming up I got out ASAP! My second run went a lot better, clipped a few gates and a bit low on some upstreams but it was all pretty good until I clipped right pole on 16 sending it swinging to my left side - there was no way to get back to it and my line was already taking me through 17 so I picked up a 50 there. I was 10 seconds faster down the course than I had been on Saturday so that was pretty promising. The wind really got up on Sunday and I was surprised not to have more touches or missed gates - I'm pretty sure the reason I hit 16 was that the wind swung it onto my paddle/arm. I saw a friend have an otherwise clean run spoiled when gate 12 was blown onto him after he had passed through and was moving away, but that's how if goes, everyone was having similar problems. Only 1 Div3 entry to compare with on Sunday, he was a few seconds quicker but also had a 50 on his best run (3 of them on his other run) so the results were close, although I was behind. Hopefully I can use these results to get ranked in Div 3 now.
The boat handled really well throughout - the mistakes that lead to my swims are all things I recognise that I do in kayaks and my Ocoee and usually get away with (except too much lean into a cross bow planted into flow instead of eddy - I often fall out of the Ocoee doing that). Crucially getting from gate 3 to 4 I had to go wide onto a seam that wanted to suck the tail down but it was quite manageable, and the same taking the middle drop through gate 8 on Sunday when 9 was on the left (when it was on the right I was leaving the seam immediately to cross the eddy- it was a long way across, the gate was almost in the next chute) - so it is really giving me confidence when the tail goes squirty I am able to keep it under control and get the boat flat again real quick.
Also of great importance was that long sprint from 14 to 15, the first few times I was needing an occasional cross forward, but I quickly realised that I was doing it more for confidence than because I really needed it, and although I think I always needed a power pry or 2, by the end of the weekend I was sprinting the whole distance with on side strokes only - I have never managed to drive a C1 so far without taking a cross forward before so that's really promising!
I really like this boat!
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
First pic looks like you might want to adjust your hip blocks - or install some if you don't have them. May just be the picture, but looks like you have the boat cocked to your offside.
JimW wrote:
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Quite tight enough without hip pads, I think. The reason the boat is slightly edged to my offside is because that's how I've been taught to paddle it....
Had quite a long sprint (200 yards +) between gates 14 and 15 last weekend, and with slight offside edge I was able to go the whole way without a cross forward stroke, so it does work. I admit I am more concerned in heavier white water and need to remember to lift that edge when cutting accross the flow right to left (that caused 2 of my swims last weekend!).
There are so many different theories on perfect forward technique, my best bet seems to be to do what Stu tells me!
Had quite a long sprint (200 yards +) between gates 14 and 15 last weekend, and with slight offside edge I was able to go the whole way without a cross forward stroke, so it does work. I admit I am more concerned in heavier white water and need to remember to lift that edge when cutting accross the flow right to left (that caused 2 of my swims last weekend!).
There are so many different theories on perfect forward technique, my best bet seems to be to do what Stu tells me!
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bearboater
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:22 am
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Looks pretty good, the scream/supremo series always look that way when paddling forward. And I always leaned offside-especially in that boat when paddling forward. The Gala desingns required less offside to track well, but the vajda bow needs a little more offside resistance...
How are you liking it so far? I will say that 4" is probably the highest saddle I've heard of in that boat. But comfort/capability of getting lower has pros/cons.
Glad to see more folks Using Dickerson-a fantastic training course, but then again the feeder is about as good as it gets for training.
Prost
-Isaac
How are you liking it so far? I will say that 4" is probably the highest saddle I've heard of in that boat. But comfort/capability of getting lower has pros/cons.
Glad to see more folks Using Dickerson-a fantastic training course, but then again the feeder is about as good as it gets for training.
Prost
-Isaac
race boats are so fast, i bet its in the speed wing.
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Jim,
Looks good. How deep is the boat at the front and aft of the rim?
Roy
Looks good. How deep is the boat at the front and aft of the rim?
Roy
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bearboater
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- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:22 am
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
For reference my stern was almost always slightly under. I had my Supremo cut XXl bow, kept volume until 6" stern of the rim, then cut progessively to the end of the stern. I had my cockpit pushed back 1" as well since I paddled very much so over the bow, and wanted the ability to stay forward and pivot or carve through gates.
Here's the new boat in Augsburg 2009.
Such a fun design. Wish I hadn't sold it....
Here's the new boat in Augsburg 2009.
Such a fun design. Wish I hadn't sold it....
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race boats are so fast, i bet its in the speed wing.
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ClassFive Boats
- C Guru
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:17 pm
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
We build the Maverick plus in 13 '1 1/2 in and 10.6 ' 'versions . It's A modified version of the Maverick for heavier paddler Mike Corcoran from Ireland . He. weighed about 94 kg / 207 lbs. it is Slightly wider and taller at the same line. Might be a solution for you.
Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
I guess I should follow up....
The iScream XXL has been fantastic.
It is really quite stable and has given me a lot of confidence.
I raced it from August to the end of the season, being an experienced boater I successfully applied to start in division 3 (this is in the UK, I understand we are the only country with a divisional system now) on the basis of my result in open at Fairnilee.
My first ranking race was a 3 and 4 event and I did will enough when compared to the K1s to pick up maximum points on the Saturday and I beat them all for half points on the Sunday (because there weren't enough K1s for full points to be awarded
) - in fact had I gone into division 4 as normal I would have been promoted to division 3 in my first race.
At another event I won the saturday competition in C1 class, although on the Sunday I didn't do so well and after dropping the tail into a hole by mistake I went over in very shallow water and swam.
By the end of the season I was a few points away from promotion and looked at the provisional start list for the final division 3 event of the season - there was one other C1 entered. I already felt I had scooped too many points at events where there weren't enough competitors and reflected that I probably am not ready for division 2 yet so decided not to enter. As it happened there were a load of late entries and it looked like they had a really good weekend of racing, but as it turned out, my closest rival (who is under 12) didn't quite collect enough points to get ahead of me (he is usually faster on the water!) so the season finished with me ranked No. 1 in division 3.
Since then the demotion level from div 2 was set and one paddler ended up demoted, so I start this year with the no. 2 bib.
Now I need to up my game, lose some weight and get promoted to division 2!
Really, this boat is so much easier to paddle than any other I have tried over the years, I really love it!
The iScream XXL has been fantastic.
It is really quite stable and has given me a lot of confidence.
I raced it from August to the end of the season, being an experienced boater I successfully applied to start in division 3 (this is in the UK, I understand we are the only country with a divisional system now) on the basis of my result in open at Fairnilee.
My first ranking race was a 3 and 4 event and I did will enough when compared to the K1s to pick up maximum points on the Saturday and I beat them all for half points on the Sunday (because there weren't enough K1s for full points to be awarded
) - in fact had I gone into division 4 as normal I would have been promoted to division 3 in my first race.At another event I won the saturday competition in C1 class, although on the Sunday I didn't do so well and after dropping the tail into a hole by mistake I went over in very shallow water and swam.
By the end of the season I was a few points away from promotion and looked at the provisional start list for the final division 3 event of the season - there was one other C1 entered. I already felt I had scooped too many points at events where there weren't enough competitors and reflected that I probably am not ready for division 2 yet so decided not to enter. As it happened there were a load of late entries and it looked like they had a really good weekend of racing, but as it turned out, my closest rival (who is under 12) didn't quite collect enough points to get ahead of me (he is usually faster on the water!) so the season finished with me ranked No. 1 in division 3.
Since then the demotion level from div 2 was set and one paddler ended up demoted, so I start this year with the no. 2 bib.
Now I need to up my game, lose some weight and get promoted to division 2!
Really, this boat is so much easier to paddle than any other I have tried over the years, I really love it!
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bearboater
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- Posts: 743
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:22 am
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal
Congrats on the promotion/demotion I'd forgotten about the development scheme. I've only raced a few GB races, Langollen(sp) and some at Holme Pierrepont(sp) Notts. trained on the london venue-fantastic course. If you see Dan Goddard say hi for me! I think he's mostly to coaching now-but he's a fantastic paddler. Probably the best boat handling skills I've seen.
Prost
-Isaac
Prost
-Isaac
race boats are so fast, i bet its in the speed wing.