gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

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ELGOTTO
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gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by ELGOTTO » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:14 pm

It seems to be getting hard to find the product that came in a small tube labeled vinyl adhesive. That is what I always used for outfitting boats. What products are you using and are they holding up well. I don't want to experiment with different products on a trial and error basis so I'm hoping to get some help from you. Thanks

RoyAlex
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by RoyAlex » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:03 pm

Hello. My local shop sells one called “HH-66 Vinyl Cement” that comes in a small metal canister. The under side of the lid has a nice applicator brush. The guy that I trust that works there says it’s the same product as Vynabond. I’ve used it to put in vinyl D-rings in my Caption about 6 months ago, and they seem to be holding up as well as Vynabond.
I hope this helps.

Pierre LaPaddelle
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by Pierre LaPaddelle » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:28 pm

It may be the same stuff, under a different name, but north of 49 we use Vinyl-Tec 2000, from North Water:

https://northwater.com/collections/rope ... s-hardware" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rick
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Paddle Power
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by Paddle Power » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:05 pm

All basically the same stuff.

https://northwater.com/collections/rope ... 0-adhesive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is available is three sizes.
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ELGOTTO
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by ELGOTTO » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:58 am

Great news. Thanks for the help.

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oc1kev
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by oc1kev » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:54 pm

I've had crud luck with vynal adhesives glueing Drings to Royalex. Pulled many a Dring off mid-run on the Nanti in NC, which is mostly class II. Until I was told about Stabond.
Ever since, in multiple boat outfitting over 20 years, and as recently as a full tandem Dring outfit for a tandem setup in a Bell Nexus in summer of 2015, if you want "grip of God" adhesive, you want to order a 4oz can of 2-part Stabond adhesive. It is designed for industrial applications in aerospace arena an adopted by big water raft folk to glue drings to rafts.
The 2-part adhesive mixes at 10:1 ratio with an accelerator included with the purchas (looks like a little glass vial of dark brown liquid) while the adhesive comes in a can that looks like something you'd see wood putty sold in.
Stabond is specifically designed to glue materials of dissimilar make together. West Marine stores will let you order it through them (from NRS) and grt free delivery to their local store for pickup if you go through then, also Amazon sells it (also through NRS).
You will need to get a little metal roller from your local hardware store to put that sucker on, but once it is on, if you do it right, the hull will crack before you pull that sucker off.... That's the level of force that adhesive will take. There are some You Tube videos I believe that also walk through how to use the stuff
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Seabass
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by Seabass » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:59 am

I've worked with stabond for years on rafts. I don't use a roller I used a 1 inch hard puddy knife that I've rounded off the corners. Just a warning to anyone who is unfamiliar with this stuff, you paint up both sides wait 5 minutes, then apply. You do not get a second chance to shift what you are gluing. Get it right the first time. It is a wicked bond! If you need it to release you need to have toluene handy. Use the puddy knife to work it from center out.

Problem with stabond is it expires in a year so buying in bulk can be a waste. It's not cheap either, but it's worth it.

ELGOTTO
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by ELGOTTO » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:27 pm

Thanks. I checked out Stabond and I think I will try it. The problem I have had with vynabond is when the canoe is on the rack in the summer the bottom of the hull heats up and any pressure pulling on the d ring pad will snatch the pad right off. Will that happen with Stabond?

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oc1kev
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by oc1kev » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:02 pm

Short answer: I can only say its never happened to me. Stabond has not let me down yet.

More than one of my boats has spent the better part of nearly an entire Atlanta summer atop my jeep when I lived next to the Chattahoochee Hwy 41 take-out, and was paddling 3 days a week (instead of going to the Gym, I would put on the Hooch and paddle upstream as my workout). My boat would sit atop my vehicle all day, every day for weeks on end, with the southern sun hammering it in 100 degree heat, and not had a blow out

Vynabond, on the ither hand, I've had plenty outfitting blowouts over the years with that stuff. I wouldn't trust Vynabond unless you are glueing vynal to vynal. It is not designed for adhearance between dissimilar materials, where Stabond is.

if you have any reservations, you might could call the NOC and ask if they have anyone left on staff that has done Royalex outfitting ... Likely there's a couple of folk still creepin around ... And The NOC used to be my go-to source back in the day when their outfitter ahop supported canoe outfitting supplies. I don't know if NRS ever outfitted canoes, I dont think NRS ever sold or advertised canoe outfitting, they're a radt company, but the NOC in Bryson City NC used to do and sell fully outfitted royalex boats. (They are the ones who turned me on to Stabond originally!)

I am defintely a Stabond true believer.

[edit]
Oh i do remember one negative, the very first time I used Stabond, I think back around 1998... I remember I had bought a little plastic roller from the paint department of the local True Value. And I remember that little red-handled plastic sucker sheering about midway into the the 2nd tri-ring... -i was glueing in rings at the bow and stern to attach a float bag strap... Anyway, I ended ip not being able to press down very hard on the roller because it was breaking. On the maiden voyage, the rear tri-ring holdin the stern floatbag was aolid as a rock, but by the end of a day surfin riffles on the Nantahala in the summer sun, the pressure of the hot airbag started to oull the Triring up in the center. It didn't actually nlow out, since Luckily it was the bow side and I just let some air out of the float bag... I remember trying to repair that Tri-ring, I ended up having to cut the center into slots to get enough leverage to pull the remainder of the tri-ring out using a vice grip. I remember having to buy a whole new kit because it was one of those special setups with both a Tri-ring and a Fast Tek buckle. -That was when I bought a good sturdy wood-handled metal roller from NRS. -so to ammend my above statement I have ALMOST had one blowout with Stanond, but I attribute it to my crud application of the stuff, and not a failure of the adhesive.

(I wish I had thought about using a pitty knife, i bet that works well too.)


(Pardon the typo's, this reply weitten from a mobile phone)
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oc1kev
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by oc1kev » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:37 pm

Afterthought tip:

When doing your prep, after you roughen up the surface, use a SMALL amount of MEK on a rag to wipe down the surface. The MEK is available at Lowes or Home Depot in the solvent isle, probably in or next to the paint stuff.

This stuff will melt your hull if you use too much so notice the emphasis on the word Small ;) but... It will prep the surface of the Royalex for a super strong chemical bond.

Typical safety advisory: solvent proof gloves, etc.

It is inexpensive and a quart metal can will be a lifetime supply.

Funny, the toxic sh!t we expose ourselves to out of a love of ww. ;)
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bruce
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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by bruce » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:09 pm

I have used Stabond to outfit several whitewater boats, some still in service after 30 years (30-40 days per year) & have never experienced even a partial failure. the previous warning is absolutely correct- You do not get a re-do on placement, once you make contact, it's over. Secondly, the MEK is very hazardous to your eyes so ALWAYS wear safety glasses. The Stabond has a relatively short shelf life so make sure the production date is recent. I have had suppliers (including NRS) ship their oldest stock.

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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by Seabass » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:39 am

Another tip taught to me be Zack at inflatable technologies in Denver(professional raft repair guy) is to use a grinding stone on a dremmel to scuff your spot. I don't have a dremmel so I use an air grinder. The stone is a 1 inch cone looking thing and I only use the side of the cone. I got mine at Ace for about $5. Use a washable marker, trace where your going to place it and the dremmel is easy to keep within the lines, it is very easy to get a little sloppy with sandpaper.

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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by EnKanoa » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:32 am

I've had surprisingly good results with Loctite Vinyl, Fabric & Plastic flexible adhesive. It's available almost everywhere.

I used it on two d-ring patches in kind of a time crunch the first time. One patch came off about six months later when I forgot to tighten down the thigh strap for transport. Replaced patch with the same stuff and has budged since on boat that sees regular use. I think I did 2-3 thin layers on each surface, let the final layer tack up, then used a roller to apply the patch to the hull.

I've also used it to successfully patch latex dry socks, some cheap IKs, and other things that require a flexible adhesive.

I'm sure it's not as strong as the other stuff, but it works well at least in a pinch. It's cheap. Contains MEK. I buy it at the grocery store. #convenience #whydidiwaituntilthenightbeforeatriptofixthis

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Re: gluing vinyl d ring patches to royalex

Post by Paddle Power » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:49 pm

This stuff
http://m.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/0/21/ ... e-Adhesive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cool suggestion. Worth a try, especially when you only need a little glue.
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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