C1 & C2 Boating

[Kelly-Rand]

I'm interested in hearing about C-boaters experience with a new decked boat of theirs. I've been paddling C-boats since about 2000, starting with a Gyromax and quickly graduating to an Atom and Frachella Viper, which are still used by me. I have now since 2015 a River Elf Storm Chaser that I have been learning its character, which is much different from my edgier boats, for these past 3 seasons. I've taken the SC on a variety of runs and find I like it best on creaky runs with lots of switchbacks and micro eddies. I've taken it on larger water and its been rock solid but I like the jet ferries I can achieve with the atom and viper on that bigger water. I also paddle a Vajda Magma 420 which is one of the shortest slalom C2's at 13'4" in production at the time of its manufacture in 2006. It is a hoot to paddle, one of the best attaining boats I've ever been in and it loves to surf. It's only drawback is I can only be in it for 3 hours before knee strain takes its toll.

Anyway, like to hear other's experience.

[serpensphile]

Well often times "bad experience" helps to impart wisdom- so here it goes.

Background: I've been an open boater, C1er, and kayaker from 12 to around 30 years old (paddled a gyromax C1 for years)--skip +25 years--I'm 53 now and getting back into it. I have a couple of open boats I LOVE. Also, I'm 5'8" and 180 lbs.

Okay here it is: I wanted a C1 to play in. I used the Kayak to C1 conversion kit to convert into a Wavesport EZ. I got it on the pool and omg I could barely paddle in a straight line. Did NOT like the boat (but I loved the conversion kit!!!). So I fitted the kit into a Wavesport X and got back into the pool. VAST improvement and it was wonderful. Tracked well and rolled like a dream-- I even perfected my back deck roll. Couldn't get totally vertical in flat water but was excited to try it on moving water.

Two week ago got it on a Class I-II river. UGH. I felt like a NOVICE. SO UNSTABLE. Needless to say we didn't bond but I learned a LOT about slicey boats and boat design. I did a postmortem on the situation.

1) I was too heavy for that boat (literature states for paddler 80 - 200 lbs; with all my gear, water, etc I was probably at 200 lbs). Because of that the edges STAYED engaged (every ripple and current pushed me through the water and I felt I have very little control) and my stern was under water a lot even in the small eddies). I also was not used to boat with planning hull and hard chines (read almost square bottom)!!!!
2) I was seated too high up- I need to lower my seat at LEAST two inches.
3) My paddle was probably too short for the C1 (for my canoe it is great).


I THINK I would do better on something less slicey and had softer chines. Again, I did NOT like that the edges stayed engaged the whole time (but that could be a weight/volume thing too). I'm used to having to "lean" to engage the edges and like that type of boat. I'm thinking I would like to try something like a Dagger Axiom or equivalent. Softer chines but it still has edges. Slicey stern but good for down river running.

With that- any wisdom that comes from MY trials and struggles would be to get a boat that fits YOU (proper size) and fits your style/needs/likes/dreams!!!

Hope this helps!

David

[Kelly-Rand]

Nice tale David, I hope that it continues to evolve. I was 48 when I switched from OC to C1 and my first boat was a Gyromax. It took me two years to get comfortable and have a roll, and then I was not satisfied with the G-max any more. It was fine as a down river runner but cross current moves and catching small eddies were not satisfying so I test drove an Atom and it fit the bill. I've only paddled one conversion kayak on a course in France and it didn't fit me well.

[Kelly-Rand]

Well continuing on my monologue here I recently picked up a new boat that is completely out of my paddling experience, a play boat C1. It is the Wheelboy recently listed here. I have no idea whether it will become a regular in my boat rotation. I do know that it is easy to roll and surprisingly stable, at least on the pond. The things I like are when you rock or plough the bow down it stays reasonably square to the surface which is very encouraging for progression into a full bow stall. I'm proceeding very cautiously as one of the things that is not to my liking is the small cockpit opening which is very tight for my 36" inseam. I have tested the wet exit and that went well, it is good that rolling it has been consistently successful. Paddling forward, edging the boat, and doing quick turns are all pretty familiar in execution. It is slower and takes a bit of coordination to keep from ploughing in the bow.
I do have plans to use this boat to help my grandkids get familiar with boating and comfortable falling out. Well I hope to progress and get it out on a river soon.
Talking of play boating, I was running the Farmington in Tariffville Ct. and came upon a group of C1'rs including a couple of women in play boats, both could consistently do a stern stall and one was doing cartwheels in the playhole as good as anyone I've seen do so. Along with them was a guy who just started C1ing two months ago, so there is life in the decked c-boating world.
I can't wait to get back on the water. I now have four days a week I can boat so maybe I can expand my comfort zone.

[djolk]

I got into a C1 after paddling open boats (Mostly vipers and a spark, but also a Blackfly Delta). There is a pretty decent play hole downtown whitehorse, for part of the year which often coincides with the not many places to paddle time of year. I used to take my long open boats in it but it was just a trash fest. Fun, but limited. I got a hold of the Delta and that was much better, but on a feature guaranteed to fill you with water instantly I wanted to get into a decked boat.
I converted an old piranha storm, it was OK, I really liked not emptying my boat so I bought a used, already converted All Star and was suddenly able to surf usefully, not tip over all the time, and maybe entertain the notion of learning some freestyle moves. Did I say I liked not emptying my boat? I started to do some wetter runs locally and decided I was going to get a 'big' C1 so I bought another pre-converted boat, a bliss stick mystic. Then, ran it for a couple years on creek style runs and few bigger rivers. But it was slow. I missed the carving and jet surfing from my open boats. I also found myself paddling places where I was lacking in confidence and the mystic was pretty 'sporty' as a C1 Creeker. Kind of Old school nowadays too.
I bit the bullet and brought a brand new Zet Raptor. I can't believe I 'wasted' all that time in the mystic. My confidence is up, this boat moves when it needs to, punches through things the mystic would flounder on. On runs I would be upside down at the end of major features, I am upright. The raptor has edges where it needs them, none where they are a problem, accelerates and stays fast, etc. Really the only problem is if I take it on a class 2 run it's a bit boring...
I still paddle the all star around town. It's fun for park and play and pretending that freestyle is a thing I do. I've also got my hands on a centrifuge which, if I am feeling committed to being upside, is good fun.

[djolk]

My river elf experience mirrors yours. There is one in town. It's fun. Light, fast, zippy, but hard to jet surf, also without any edges it's a bit fraught keeping it ferrying in pushy waters...

[Kelly-Rand]

Well here it is the beginning of April and I've one WW run under my belt in a new C1. Not new in design but never seen WW till this past weekend. I purchased one of two Glass Atoms offered for sale here on Cboats back last October. Just getting the boat from NC to Boston was quite the endeavor between I the sellers and the eventual person who drove it up to Millbrook boats where I took delivery. Oce-one-kanubi drove it up just as we were having the first snow and ice storm of the not yet winter season to pick up his new Millbrook Rival.

So how does the Glass Atom compare to the original? I would say very much the same performance wise, but I have to say this first run was on a more creek like stream than what I would normally say is the Atoms forte, which would be more like the Dead river over 2500 cfs, the Indian section of the Hudson Gorge or the Dry Fork of the Cheat. But in the past weekends run there were only a few sections where the river narrowed down and provided enough push to gauge performance and I can say it provided no surprises. I can drive it where I want to go and the stronger the current the easier that is. I didn't really test the surfing on this run due to it being the first run after a long winter layoff. I do like that it is 25 to 30 pounds lighter than the plastic version.
Class V boats is the manufacturer of the glass version. I know of five in existence four of which were owned by the couple I bought this one from. It was made in 2006 and never outfitted till now.
Can't wait to get it on the water it deserves.

[Mike W.]

Glad you picked up that glass atom. I would expect these weight reduction to make it easy more responsive than the plastic version.

[Kelly-Rand]

Nice to hear from you Mike.

Yes, the lighter weight does translate into quicker response, a more nimble feel. But, I've been paddling the Storm Chaser on this run most exclusively because it is much more suited to it. The SC will surf just about anything you point it at as long as you can get to it. The atom needs a wave with a bit more velocity or steepness to lock in.
The Sith would have been another boat I'd consider but I've only paddled one once, Gonzo's in 2006 at Fascination Alley.
Hope to get together again on a river someday.

Jim

[Mike W.]

I was able to spend a lunch break in a storm chaser at my local park and play spot. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it surfed. My Sith surfs better, but the Storm Chaser probably does most everything else better.

[wildwaterc2]

Jim, it is great to get that glass Atom in use again. I test paddled it also when I purchased my Hornet from the same seller last fall.

Mike W, I have a used Storm Chaser for sale should you be interested and yes it does surf well. It is a really cool boat but a little slow and soft-chined for my apparently abnormal tastes for a fast boat. [I've been enjoying my Nirvana L with its sharper chines and faster speed on the water and my Hornet which is blazingly fast though a bit soft chined]

[Mike W.]

I'm with you on the speed. I don't think I'd want it for big stuff. I tend to pick up the speed when I get scared. Lol. The storm chaser is faster than my Sith, but no match for my vipers or 4 meter vajda nova. Other than the inability to pivot, I think the storm chaser is a darned good all around boat.

[Kelly-Rand]

Mike,
Did you have a Viper built for you? I remember you had cracked your original at Memorial Rock on the Savage. I still have mine but it only gets out on WW a couple times a year now.
That boat is just so much fun to paddle till my knees say no more.

[Mike W.]

Jim, my old viper was a winter port boat. After I cracked it, I picked up a used New Wave Viper. If I remember correctly, it's 10lbs. heavier than the winter port. I talked to Paul S. about building a lighter one. He said no problem. It's a great design, I just don't paddle enough these days to justify a new boat.

[Kelly-Rand]

wildwater

I tried a Hornet a few times over the years. It is nice and fast but I could never get comfortable in it. The rounded hull tends to tighten the knees at the spread I like so either i have to raise the saddle or paddle for shorter periods. The three C1's I now have all have rather flat hulls, viper, atom and storm chaser. The SC is borderline and I get by because it is wider than the hornet giving a little bit more room for the knees. I have a plastic Wheelboy that also has a flat bottom, so once I squeeze in it, it is reasonably comfortable.
The Wheelboy is for training purposes with the grandkids. It is so stable for its short length, at least on a pond. I haven't taken it on any river run yet and may never do so. I think of it more as a park and play boat for me.