Seeking advise on new OC-1's

[adkSara]

Seeking advise on new OC-1's
by eric archer
I am a western OC boater looking to buy a new boat. I am presently paddling a whitesell whirlwind and really like it. I also have a spanish fly but would like something that can handle bigger water and stays dry, it also needs to be able to handle some abuse becuase I do some creekin.I paddle mostly class 4 bigger water. I do want a boat that will surf but running rivers is my primary goal. I have been looking at the Esquif boats How dry are they? Are they tough? What about the phantom? does dagger still make this boat? How does it compare? Any thoughts from folk that have experance with these boats would be great. Any other options?? Thanks


Posted on Jan 8, 2003, 1:54 PM

new boat
by Ejner
I have a new Esquif Detonator that I am paddling on the on west coast of B.C. and I like it. As I get the feel it seems like a good surfer and it is dry. As a forethought I added 2 layers of glass tape on the inside of the boat at the chines to stiffen it up and I added a bulkhead and side panels to keep it dryer post roll.


Posted on Jan 8, 2003, 8:18 PM

Pyranha Prelude
by Dave
I have paddled all boats mentioned and a few others and have not had as much fun or pulled off as many moves as I have in the Prelude. I found my self at a cross roads in my canoeing and was thinking of giving up the open boating and going full time C1. Thank fully I gave the Prelude a try. It comes fully outfitted with air bags and all kinds of foam. The boat is made out of the same material kayaks are made of. So we now have a truly indestructable canoe, And I have tried to break it. I have been able to brake all royallex boats(sorry Dagger) as well as custum kevlar glass canoes(sorry Clipper) that I have owned. (Chilliwack Canyon B.C.)
I paddle small technicle creeks with huge drops and big monsterios water (The Thompson) in it and it works better that anything I have used. Dry(well sort of Dry)and with the huge amount of rocker in it I think it is just as manoverable as todays creeks boats. It is also more fun then most c-1s I have paddled.
If you want to try one check with REI or if you come up to Canada let me know.
The only sketchy part of this boat is hole rideing because sideways full of water sucks.
Hope this was helpfull

Dave Dungey


Posted on Jan 8, 2003, 11:45 PM

Prelude....Keep the water out??
by Archer
Thanks very much for your thoughts on the prelude.
I am leaning towards getting one. The one thing that
still bothers me is will I be able to keep the water out in bigger volume rivers? I presently have a spainish fly as well as a whitesell. The fly in my opinion is very wet. The only way I can keep water out is to hit stuff kinda sideways and lean up stream, other wise the wave breaks over my bow and I'm pulling over to dump it out. Oviously the prelude better givein the higher volume bow but does it still swamp easy? am I stuck with swamping if I want to go with a new short boat?? Please help.
thanks


Posted on Jan 10, 2003, 10:43 AM

Keeping the water out
by Craig
Here's some things to consider

Getting some water in an OC1 is part of the game, and on a hot day with room to breathe kind of nice way to cool off!

Newer, shorter OC's usually ride up and down wave troughs (which is fun!) instead of penciling through them which fills and gets you wet.

Quartering waves (bow at aprox. 10:00 or 2:00) is the correct way to run drier. Whether you are in a Spanishfly or a Caption hitting waves straight on usually isn't good technique..watch some big water, or creek paddlers and you will typically see the boat doing lots of transitional moves to avoid filling throughout a rapid.

When creeking or running drops learn to boof, and remember rocks on the launch are tools.. rocks on the landing can ruin your day...this was one of the first lessons my southeastern friends taught me.. and you can use it anywhere water falls.

A fun technique to practice is leaning way forward then way back, and taking a stroke on big waves (I actually flipped my Spanishfly over backwards on the Upper Gaulley doing this in some big waves..right after a "wheelie") this often helps you figure how to raise or lighten your bow when need be...stroke timing is a key here.

Hope this was in some ways helpful, or at least humorus.

Craig

Posted on Jan 13, 2003, 8:45 PM

dryness
by archer
Thanks for the thoughts on the prelude. So it sounds like you don't think dryness is a big issue with the prelude?? I have been open boating for many years and relize that water is part of the game in an OC. However, I was not pleased with the dryness of the Spainish fly which I purchased last spring. Penciling into waves was a problem. In your view is the prelude a little or a lot dryer than the SF.? How would you compare it with boats such as the whirlwind or viper?
Thanks much for the advise.
eric


Posted on Jan 14, 2003, 5:18 AM

Dryer
by Craig
The Prelude or any full volume OC1 when paddled properly should be drier than any rodeo canoe. 99% of running dry is about technique, your lines through a rapid, and your ability to read and predict what to do while paddling.

I would have to say that for the most part it's 70% paddler and 30% boat. I've seen people paddle Captions solo on a race course and best paddlers in an Ocoee, Phantom, Detonator, and others... it was his technique, skill, and comfort in this boat that made it happen. On the other hand I have paddled my Spanishfly down the Green, Upper Yough, Gaulley, and Ottawa with others in like boats and had a great time as well... it's usually the paddler, not the boat.

Here in the midwest the Canoe of choice has been the Ocoee, it's not my favorite anymore but there is an excellent paddler who will only paddle an Ocoee, everyone see's him and his skills, so therefore they get Ocoee's as well... ironic isn't it.

I recommend getting a boat that you won't outgrow, won't wear out too quickly, can do diverse activities in (racing, creeking, playing) and sticking with it for a while...it's the same reason my friend won't paddle anything other than an Ocoee.. it does everything he wants to do in it. For my money right now to purchase an all around "full volume" OC1 the cash is going on the Prelude for all these reasons.
Dagger, Esquif, Mohawk, and Mad River all make great boats too, some of each model I would recommend over others depending on a persons skills and needs. It's up to us paddlers to spread good information when we can. I hope this has helped.

Craig


Posted on Jan 14, 2003, 8:01 PM

paddler alot of equation but not all
by archer
Craig
Thanks alot for you thoughts on the prelude. I agree that the paddler is a large portion of the equation but certainly it is not the whole answer. I am a western paddler who paddles many bigger volume rivers. While I agree that a good OC boater can run dryer than a less accompished paddler, even the hottest paddler can't run all rapids dry (yes water is part of the game I relize this). You mention that you paddle runs such as the Gaulley and Upper Yough in your spanish fly and had lots of fun. My question for you would be after what poportion of the class four/five drops are you out on the bank or rolling over to rid yourself of the water if you where in your prelude 50% or is it closer to 100% of the time? How would that compare if you were in a larger more traditional boat? While I'm certainly not afraid of having to dump water out of my boat (if I was I wouldn't be paddling OC). After paddling the SF for a season (yes it is a fun boat) I do not belive that it is the answer for the types of big water that I paddle (payette, Locsha, salmon to mention a few). Thus if I am going to buy another boat I have no need for another creek boat the SF works fine...for that. Obviously if you are paddlin with such folks as Eli you are a very accoumpished paddler. However, if you are dumping after most bigger drops in your prelude it is not likely the best choice for me as an all around canoe given the type and volume of rivers that I paddle. Again thank you very much for you thoughts and input. I am really hoping that the prelude will work out for me given the greater durabilty of the material. However given the price tag I am a little nervous that it doesn't quite fit the bill given my situation.
thanks again
eric


Posted on Jan 16, 2003, 12:39 PM

Ditto & more..
by Craig Smerda
The Prelude is the most versatile traditional OC you can get today. The huge bonus is that it will outlast "any" ABS boat by 10X, and with no straps to fumble with you are in and out in lickity split to scout or ?

If you want to less water in the cockpit when creeking add 2" foam the length of the sidewalls and as much foam as possible to the saddle sides so it is still comfortable...this forces the water on the outer/lower edge where the water will actually stabilize the boat when full, also using transfer tubes (1-1/2") through the saddle in a few locations helps equalize the levels. This helps especially well with creeking and bigwater where there are less places to dump. Even if your buddies tell you it's not an "open" canoe this way it's OK, because they will be stopping to dump out while you are still going.

Craig


Posted on Jan 9, 2003, 4:49 AM

Dave and Craig re Prelude
by Brian
Dave, Craig and others,
That was some great info about the Prelude! I liked what you both wrote and I'm considering upgrading my OC1.
Where did you get your boat from? I'm in Canada.


Posted on Jan 9, 2003, 1:23 PM

You Can Get One at ..............
by Dave
When running big volume rivers in the prelude foam the sides, use the standard OC-1 skills and you will be Dry. I believe part of open boating is trying to get down the hard rapid in one peice under control and DRY. The Prelude makes me look good when running big water because when I use good leans and tilts I am dryer then most.
When in Canada you can get a prelude from Mid-Canada fiberglass 705-647-6549 , Mountain Equipment Co-op and You can order one from most places that carry Pyranha. In America contact www.pyranhaUSA.com
Hope this helps

Paddle like there is no tommarow

Dave Dungey


Posted on Jan 10, 2003, 8:10 PM

Please, more info on the Prelude
by Brian
Thanks for all the great info on the pyranha prelude.
Can anyone comment on the following:
1 forward speed, can you compare it to other similar OC1 such as ocoee, phantom, maxim, dentonator, viper, zoom?
2. side surfing, is it wet similar to the ocoee as compared to a viper, phantom?
3. what about release edge?
4. chime, hard (viper/ocoee)or soft (phanton)?
5. How does it compare to other similar OC1 such as ocoee, phantom, maxim, dentonator, viper, zoom?
6. anything else that would be good to know?


Posted on Jan 12, 2003, 1:16 PM