Bringing this back up to top...fate of Mad River Canoe Co.

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:30 pm

Threads do drift off topic a bit.

Let's face it that there are not many options to purchasing new canoes--few companies are currently making canoes and few companies are currently designing new models.

As are well used canoe get older and older, wear and tear starts to show and at some point we need a new canoe. Also, as are skills and paddling style changes we also seek out different canoes.

Hats off to any company who is working towards meeting our needs. Esquif is one example and I'm hard pressed to think of many others. If I only lived closer to all the OPEN BOAT action in Quebec that I've heard about.

Yes, I love my Viper and also my cut down Ocoee but this year I picked up a Vertige for wilderness whitewater tripping and so far it has been a wonderful canoe.

In the end, I support any and all people & companies promoting our style of canoeing.

squeakyknee · Post by **squeakyknee** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:42 pm

All of this is fine and all,But.
If the quality of Royalex doesn't improve dramatically soon,it won;'t be worth the $$ for any boat from any manufacturer.
The newer stuff is so thin that it wears right through to the white after the first scratch or two.(Novacraft and some of the NEW esquif boats in royalex)I have seen this firsthand,VERY depressing

I just hope that twin-tex works out,and that companies begin to develop and use it.
Otherwise I'll go back to repairing my composite boats every other week.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:56 pm

Glad to see some of the old models coming back, and thankful that Esquif is pushing the envelope on new designs as well. I certainly hope that Twintex works out, and though I don't want one, I'm glad that some manufacturers are making plastic canoes.

I think one of the facts that we seem to overlook in the whole OC v/s yak is the cost differential between an entry yak versus the canoe. They may be cheaply made, non-white water boats, but for a few hundred bucks, you can be on the water in an entry level rec. kayak and have a usable boat. I think if you go with the cheapest widely available canoes, you're dealing with a 14' long, 40" wide barge that paddles like crap.

Until somebody cracks that nut, I think we'll continue to see us old guys in OC, and all the kids in butt boats.

hutchej · Post by **hutchej** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:14 pm

I believe that it is tough in this sport to find young people. I'm 22 and paddle open boats but most of my friends paddle kayaks because of the cost factor. Luckily for me my dad likes to buy boats so I have a great opportunity to have access to boats. I think it would be awesome to get more kids into the sport that's how I got here.

On the comment about companies pushing the envelope on new canoes, Evergreen Canoe here in Canada has put out a new solo boat that looks really similar to the Esquif Zoom. It's called the Solito and is being sold by places like Paddle Shack and Mountain Equipment Co-op. It looks like a boat i'd love to try. I currently have a Rival and love it! We wanted to see it earlier this year but it seems that people really like the boat so we're going to hang on to it.

As long as these boats are available i'll be sure to invest in purchasing them. I have a Mad River Explorer that is more then 20 years old, I really don't think they make'em like they used to!

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:52 pm

P.S. A little off topic, but I miss my '71 Bronco....yep 3 on the tree, crank windows, no power steering, no power brakes, drums all around, no A/C, about 12 mpg on a good day. Great for hauling a couple of OC's and a bit of gear though

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:04 am

I agree with Louie, not that I buy a lot of new boats, but I like to see my boat dollars going to an Esquif canoeing company rather than a Confluence mega watercrap company.

I've paddled the Caption and the Vertige X (I own a Vertige X), in my opinion there's very little difference between the two designs, certainly nothing significant that we'll find agreement on - just minor, random personal opinion, and I'd stick with Esquif because of their commitment to new directions in open boats.

P.

pgf · Post by **pgf** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:53 pm

h2sk1 wrote:
Nessmuk wrote:....snip..... From what I can see, WW canoeing is pretty much a dying sport.
.
(...snip...)

Several weekends ago at a paddling festival called PalmerFest, a new OC-1 specifically designed for children was unveiled and a course was held with 8-12 year olds paddling a solo WW canoe!! Pretty incredible.

Paddling clubs here abound, but the canoe clubs do remain strong. I guess it is the proximity to a lot of tripping rivers that keeps the canoeing going. That said, you can buy a kayak just about anywhere, yet it is harder to find a shop that sells real canoes.

The little OC1 is called a Splash. It has just been put out by Andrew Philips of Composite Creations in London, Ontario. It was a real hit with the younger crowd (and their parents). I believe Andrew sold all of the boats he had brought.

I think canoeing is experiencing a resurgance. My two sons paddle c1 (17 year old) and oc1 (13 year old) playboats by preference. I can think of five or six other c1/oc1 WW paddlers in the under-18 age range that we see semi-regularly at Palmer Rapids or the Gull River.

sdbrassfield · Post by **sdbrassfield** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:31 am

[quote=
Let's face it that there are not many options to purchasing new canoes--few companies are currently making canoes and few companies are currently designing new models. [/quote]

I agree and feel that when a company like MR reintroduces models, especially old dagger models, a company that was instrumental in revolutionizing and popularizing oc and c-boating it should not be ignored. Big company or not, hope it continues...

[quote=
Hats off to any company who is working towards meeting our needs. Esquif is one example and I'm hard pressed to think of many others.[/quote]

Thanks Esquif. We need a company that caters to the oc community, was obviously inspired by dagger oc and c-boat designs, and has resurrected, improved upon, or tweaked the older, time tested dagger designs, eg.;

Detonator/Nitro - Very Ovation-like w/ a bit more rocker
Zephyr - A molded Ocoee w/ less rocker/maybe a tad less edge
Zoom - See less rockered Phantom
Vertige - See Impulse

[quote=
In the end, I support any and all people & companies promoting our style of canoeing.[/quote]

Amen

PS: Hope this wasn't to controversial...

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:56 pm

Quote
"
Detonator/Nitro - Very Ovation-like w/ a bit more rocker
Zephyr - A molded Ocoee w/ less rocker/maybe a tad less edge
Zoom - See less rockered Phantom
Vertige - See Impulse
"

I must disagree with the Zoom comment - my wife has a Phantom and I have a Zoom. The Zoom is way edgier and tippier than a Phantom. They're the same length (roughly) but other than that these boats are worlds apart.

I previously paddled a Detonator and like an Ovation it's slow, but I can't imagine it otherwise paddles anything like a boat 2 ft longer. The Nitro is probably not far off though.

I'm a major fan of Esquif's designs - I just wish I could get find them here in Europe - if you think there are few OC paddlers in the US, try hopping across the Atlantic. I know of one other OC paddler who lives near me, then a couple who are 1-1.5 hrs away, then a few more about 2-2.5 hrs away....and that's it. Having said that though, a bunch of people in my local club are feeling inspired and wanting to give it a try....and there is a local outfitter who can rent some boats (Mohawk or Indian as they're called here)....I feel a class coming on.

Cheers,
NZMatt

Tiggy · Post by **Tiggy** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:39 am

Unfotunately, Dagger and MR have stagnated in thier boat designs b4 they "shafted" us Canoeist. Heck, I C-1 more than open boat anymore. Simply tired of bailing and frankly like more action than Class2-3 can throw at you. Just convert the cheapest kayak you can find and go for it. If you paddle well enough you can take a bathtub down the river, lol.

MotorCityOC-1 · Post by **MotorCityOC-1** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:26 am

NZMatt,

Are you seeing any Homes' in Europe? I think I might like it better than the Zephyr if I could ever find one.

swisscanoeist · Post by **swisscanoeist** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:58 pm

I have one !

Hugo vom Sarnersee

Obwalden / Central Switzerland

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:23 pm

I know now two people with them - Hugo and Fez. They look to be really nice boats - remind me of a pulled-in Ocoee in design. I haven't actually paddled one yet, but hope to soon....must do some epoxy work tomorrow on the Zoom....wishing it wasn't Royalex right now.

Prices aren't any better here than in the US though - just in case you were wondering.

Cheers
Matt

swisscanoeist · Post by **swisscanoeist** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:23 pm

The material seems tough. I got anyway a scratch about 1-2 milimeters deep by 100mm long in the bow, just from the first run.
It is light and quite durable in case of impact resistant. But if you meet a really sharp edge of a rock, the hard material scratches.
If i want to have fun for a longer time, I need to glue skid plates
at the ends. I'm not sure jet, will I make it from Kevlar or look for some
plastic ones ("Prallkappen" like the use to put on the yaks, with contact cement Scoch Grip 1099.

Hugo

C-Forum

Bringing this back up to top...fate of Mad River Canoe Co.

Don't Feel Shafted

Homes?

Yep