outfitting materials other than minicel

[ohioboater]

I've seen several different outfitting setups now that have saddles or saddle components made out of blue foam. Is that the insulating board stuff they sell at home improvement stores? Or something else?

I'm in the design stages of rigging up a jack-of-all trades seat and saddle system for a Dimension (adult with kid in WW, two adults for big boat WW play, two adults and kid or kids on flatwater), and was wondering what other options there might be for outfitting, especially since I may not get it 'right' the first time around...

[bearboater]

I have paddled a c2 rigged for everyone, and it worked very well with just a 6 inch foam block for a seat, made of the blue insul foam, and then slight foam on the bottom of the boat about 2 inches high to spread the knees apart. the problem is that it's horribly uncomfortable, but it works so great due to the light/stiffness of it. i would recommend using it, and regular m300, or L300 or what ever the softer stuff is, with the softer stuff in contact with the paddler.
hope it works!
I worked concrete, and always seemed to find tons of it around construction sites, i would check around, free is way better than cheap.
-isaac

[Larry Horne]

... doesn't that stuff fall apart almost as easily as styrofoam ?

[dirk]

Ohioboater,

I am just finishing a similar project using an old Dagger Caper and hope to get it in the water this week. I have two kids (4 and 3) and the plan is to have one in the front for some mild WW until they can paddle their own boat. I wanted to make things flexible since when they are small I will need to be near the middle and as they grow or I paddle with an adult I want to have the saddles in a normal tandem positions. I built the saddles using minicell foam since I did not know of any other options. For adults the saddles look similar to the Mike Yee version (although not nearly as pretty). For the little one I have a two position saddle, kneeling position about 5 inches off the bottom and a sitting position about 8 inches from the bottom of the boat.

In order to move the saddles around I attached daisy chains (made by Bell, I think) to the bottom of the boat. This give me lots of flexibility, tandem with kid, tandem with adult, or solo. I might also add Velcro to the bottom of the saddles and the boat to keep everything tight.

[Craig Smerda]

minicell... use minicell...

[Rumplestiltskin]

Craig is right. Minicell is superior to anything else.

If you are doing a throwaway-type rig, or are experimenting with design, try using ethafoam. It is a little cheaper than minicell and works reasonably well in most situations. But, plan on using minicell in the final and/or permanent setup.

[sbroam]

I've used old ethafoam (found some big blocks cheap at GAF one year) and I think it is OK to build up larger "shapes" with, but absolutely cover it with neoprene or minicell if you are going to be in contact with it. It can work passably well for flotation or to make a wall in a decked boat. For smaller applications I wouldn't bother. My last use of it was to make home made "roof top blocks" for some folks without roof racks to carry lake canoes.

The trick is to find other sources of minicell - a friend of mine has found numerous aerobic steps made from minicell at garage sales. The downside is that they are mint green, the upside is that he paid about $1 each....

[ohioboater]

Hey, that's a good idea - I never thought about all the other places that minicel turns up. Heck, now that I think of it, we've got a couple of baby books made out of the stuff.

[bearboater]

actually the blue stuff holds up fairly well, it is closed cell, and has a very small bead, and lasts. not saying it's the best, but doable. I think my next saddle will be the treybey carbon one... if I can afford it.
Skaal
-isaac

[oc1paddlr]

If this stuff starts showing up in eddies I think it will be a short lived waste of time, but a long time hang'n round. it also comes in pink. ( You can make a take-apart table/cooler insulating package for canoe camping out of this stuff, let me know you if want my ingenious plan... but I don't think fish are bite'n here)

[Dale@half-shaft]

My local "Army Surplus" store has come up with used minicell in the past. 4 1/2 feet by 5 1/2 feet by 3/4 inch. It did have some bits of other foam attached to it, but that stuff came off really easy. They said it was some sort of air conditioning filter, but they didn't really know for sure.

I've experimented with several other types of foam that had the appearance of mini cell, but they tend to absorb water. A test is to hold the foam under water and squeeze it like a sponge. Pull it out of the water, then squeeze again and observe. If you can see that you're squeezing out water, it's not a true closed cell foam.

Non closed cell foam will make your boat heavy, smelly(moldy) and (usually) eventually falls apart.

Sweets Composites has pretty competitive prices. Go together with a friend or 2 to save on shipping charges and it starts getting pretty cheap. http://sweetcomposites.com/

Note: If you like pretty colors, check with Roger Scott's near the Ocoee. He has been stocking pastel colors. Not as cheap as Sweets, you understand, but...

[sbroam]

If this stuff starts showing up in eddies I think it will be a short lived waste of time, but a long time hang'n round. it also comes in pink. ( You can make a take-apart table/cooler insulating package for canoe camping out of this stuff, let me know you if want my ingenious plan... but I don't think fish are bite'n here)

I agree. I have seen the insulating board used as walls in boats (Millbrook decked boats), but that is a fairly "protected" application - there is not a lot of abrasion happening on a wall. I think a pedestal or bulkhead would be a terrible use for that sort of foam - you'll leave a trail of little blue crumbs...

Ingenious plan? I've got a sheet of that board lying around that never has become the walls for that old Noah C-2 in the rafters, maybe I need to make a table/cooler - do share

[philcanoe]

you might get away with creating a block of the blue insulating foam, and covering it with a 1" - 1/"2 layer of real mini-cell... this would be more economical


-- also --

not to HI-JACK this thread....

i have recently gotten some "Cross-Linked" mini cell, from a silent auction... incredibly tough...about 5/8" thick, and you can not tear the stuff... was told that it is costly, but would excel in high wear areas ... just a FYI, but something to check out... have not used, waiting for the right application... did make a really nice, impromptu sleeping pad... the donor picked it up, twisted, puled with both hands, and generally tried to demolish it, and there was no apparent damage

[oc1paddlr]

let's say you have a sheet 4x8. half in. thick. Cut in half-now you have two pieces 4x4. Cut one of these down to four pieces, each being 2x2 (24"x24")--these will be the legs/support. In each one of these cut a half in. slot 12" down from the top, centered. Take one 2x2 piece, turn it upside-down and slide the grooves together (like Spock putting two Vulkin hands together). Repeat. Now cut the other 4x4 piece into two 2x4-this is the double layer tabletop. All pcs. come apart to pack over, under, and around your cooler(s) daytime, then slide together and lay on the top for a camp table. I use this doing So. Ga. blackwater canoe camping. It's a bit fragile, but it gets stuff off the ground and out of the sand. Hope this makes sense (more so then making a saddle out of the stuff)

[bearboater]

what phil said was what i was suggesting, also i tihnk that the blue stuff would work well for pillars in race/squirt boats, and when they crack out, I think it is a great replacement, and it's stiff as heck. I am not positive about its' absorbency, anybody know? I can't assume a whole lot due to it's application in the real world.
cheers
-isaac