OC roll when tipping to the offside.

dennisstream · Post by **dennisstream** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:06 am

I am trying to nail down a decent OC roll. However, when I tip to my offside, I seem to get stuck on my offside.

How do most paddlers get set up properly for their roll when they tip to the offside?

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:44 am

Hi dennisstream,

I don't have the answer for you, but I would like to know as well. I get stuck on my off-side, when I try to use the paddle to sweep to the on-side I get disoriented.

What do you paddle? I have a Zephyr.

Cheers,
Attila

oc1paddlr · Post by **oc1paddlr** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:54 am

hey denni... the first thing I do is rotate my t-grip hand thumb -away from my chest so when I sweep (under water) to my on side the blade is feathering to the surface. Head tries to follow blade to on side, some say perpendicular to boat. then do your low brace magic (I slowly sweep forward). I don't flip my paddle over at the finale of this little scenario. I'm sure others can give better help; you came to the right place

Aric · Post by **Aric** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:36 am

on boats with lots of rocker, like ocoees and possibly zephyrs sometimes want to stay on the side they go over on. when I find myself going over to my offside too far gone for a brace to work, I go with the momentum and pull the boat past that catching point with momentum. If that doesn't work then I really reach for the surface on my onside and take a paddle stroke to pull me over, and then roll. I dont really know how to describe the paddle stroke before the roll, Ill have to pay closer attention next time I do it.
I tried it a few times in a shallow eddy (18"deep)when I was learning to do the pulling stroke. being able to reach to the bottom if i got disoriented helped to lessen the disorientation
Hope this helps
Aric

jim gross · Post by **jim gross** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:24 pm

Useually the current that flipped you came from that side. The 2 main reasons you dont come up to roll on your onside then is. Your life jacket as you failed to tuck and the rocker ei. bouyancy of the floatation halts the natural roll. Solution , throw your body launguage into the flip to assist in complete roll over and if that doesnt do it. Reach around your boat with your paddle , do a hip snap and then reach for the surface and repeat. OH yeah theres another reason and solution. your on an eddy line and currents are fighting you. wait it out and flush down stream to calmer water or realy dial in your efforts. JIM

pdown2 · Post by **pdown2** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:26 pm

...or switch your grip so your offside is your onside. Yup I'm already ready for a bashing for suggesting this one. It works if you don't lose the paddle....

bushpaddler · Post by **bushpaddler** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:17 pm

Same problem, but tandem.
Our Esquif Blast, highly rockered and two PFDs, is nearly impossible to get from my off- to my onside (we don't even flip completely). Only if strong current helps it sometimes works. As one of us has to change paddle side anyway (usually my partner in the bow) we now try to Roll the other direction having me changing paddle sides (as I don't have no offside roll). We'll see if this will work in Wihitewater one day. There's a lot to learn...

Anyone who fixed this problem in this or an other way?

Florian

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:37 pm

If my righting pry fails me, i try to fall to the back deck. (Back deck roll) I find if i do that it's alot easier for my body and paddle to get into a good position to roll on my onside.

Open Gate · Post by **Open Gate** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:42 pm

Jim's got it nailed down,

If I may add, face in the floatation. You need to be in as close as possible to your boat i.e. float bags.
You're body might be dragging under and acting as a leavy preventing it from travelling to the other side.

So keep that momentum, face in the float bag, slice through the water with your blade and use it to travel under, set up as you would normally ounce on the other side.

What I also like with the face in the float bag principle is the protection you get when upside down. Your helmet and PFD are both protecting you from rocks.

This is my fail safe method. If I miss my 1st roll due to turbulence I close my eyes, face in the float bag, and everything happens from there, set up, hip snap, body out of the water, open my eyes and right side up again.

Good luck !

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:45 pm

Open Gate wrote:
What I also like with the face in the float bag principle is the protection you get when upside down. Your helmet and PFD are both protecting you from rocks.

A much safer solution.

jnorto01 · Post by **jnorto01** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:50 pm

My Zoom hangs up like this if I flip slowly to my offside. What I do is twist my torso so I'm looking up (on the offside), reach the paddle back to the stern about a foot under water and jam it to the surface. This thows the boat to the onside and I just slide under and roll. It takes a lot longer to describe than to do. Iv'e found this very quick and easy to do even in combat roll situations. Sorry, I don't have video. Its easy once you see it. Jim

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:51 pm

Dennisstream:

I recently had the same problem with my MR Outrage, so I might be able to help from the newly experienced side. First, I fully agree with Jim Gross and Open Gate: stay close to the bags on the flip and drive your body through to the other side - don't be lazy and talk to the fish like I seem to do. What caused me trouble was getting my body over to the set-up position. For me, this required what seemed an unnatural twist, and it took a good number of successful attempts before it started to take hold. It seemed that I always wanted to go to the wrong side of the boat. Realize that when you are upside down facing the surface, you need to swing your body toward the offside gunnel and twist your torso into the set-up position at ninety degrees to the boat with your head facing down. An article in American Whitewater (http://www.americanwhitewater.org/conte ... 1/page/80/) helped me understand the process, especially the paragraph titled "The Stretch." In addition, in the C Videos there is a post by Walsh showing Squeekyknees rolling his C-1. The video is taken from underwater and shows the body movement well. The roll sequence is about 20 seconds into the video. To save you a few clicks to the C Videos section, the URL is: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5731&hl=en .

Marc

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:31 am

A friend suggested this technique to me for rolling a kayak (use to do a little kayak polo, and you have to get out of the open boat).... it's has helped when in the situation you described

I'm just not sure if the censor will let it through...put here goes anyway

He told me to imagine that your trying to stick your thumb up your arse...when you flip...reach up, i mean way up, both hands way up on the bottom of the boat, and then go a little further...stretch you top hand (tee-grip) as if your (-yep you got it-)... just remember it's your thumb, and it's way up ... like near the middle - of the botto - of the boat

this little extra... really helps to get the other had into a sweep position, it also loads your hips to the max... my roll was never getting that high out of the water to start... I had always used the Nolan roll, stick the paddle out to the side, now come up

to me the difference between the kayak and canoe roll was the parts that came afterward... but this setup has helped me get around ....the main difference was that by the time I finished the sweep (and usually before) the yak was up...and with a canoe I had to rotate by head around with the sweep... so that I was looking down and out, then bracing, instead of trying to do a sit-up back into the canoe (that almost always, usually, most every time.... failed)

anyway this setup has helped me get around, and not get lost on the other side

bamaboater · Post by **bamaboater** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:19 pm

I agree with all these statements.

I really think keeping your head tucked and pressed into the airbag will keep your protected and bring the boat completely upside down. if you can keep your nose pressed against the offside of the airbag, slighty over from center, it'll give you more momentum to bring it over competely.

speaking from experience, keeping your head against the boat is critical safety underwater. once you get comfortable with that and stay under 'til things get calmer, you've just stepped up your abilities bigtime.

bobthepainter · Post by **bobthepainter** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:48 pm

i have the same problem with my zoom , i just don't have enough push or pull to pop it over? i have "you tubed it "all and i'm just not sure how to gain the power .

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