Opinion on pumps....

[sbroam]

Let's move the discussion to something near and dear to the decked boater's heart - NOSE PLUGS. Here's an item that's totally superfluous and only needed by people who don't know how to spend time under water without getting it in their sinuses - THE INEPT.

Yep, that's me. Noseplugs everytime there is a chance I'm going over. Next!

[Nate]

Use the noseplugs in the pool but never on the river. Spend a lot more time upside down in the pool than I do on the river too (thankfully).

[yarnellboat]

Hey! I'm not inept, not all of me, only just my sinuses are!

In fact, tomorrow I'm getting my head x-rayed to see if there's something physically wrong with my sinuses, because I'm way too prone to getting water in there, and getting infections that don't go away.

To combine themes, maybe I can get hooked up with a motorized bilge pump for my sinuses!

PY.

[Helly]

resist commenting on this. Most have named great reasons for having a pump, and I will add a few more.
I think it is as simple as 'paddling smarter, not harder.' You (okay I) would spend a lot more time pulling over, and dumping my boat. With the time and energy I've spent doing that, I've missed a number of opportunities to practice skills and maneuvers in order to gain confidence and skills.
2) I think one of the reasons some folks do not get into canoeing is because of the dumping the canoes all the time....it is viewed as a lot of hard work for some, and I think more will be attracted to getting into open boating because of pumps.
3) For some rivers, like upper section of the Poudre which I can't remember, that are big and very continuous, a pump is awesome. With sections where there are virtually no eddies, and maneuvering is a must, paddling a boat full of water for long stretches is pretty fatiguing.
Lastly, because you have a pump doesn't defame the art & skill of canoeing....it isn't like it is a motor boat. It doesn't take away any of the glamour or allure of any awesome open boater I have seen. But the point well taken is that it is and I think should not be viewed as a crutch for paddling poorly or not advancing ones skills.

[Taniwha]

Bilge pumps?

I love them! Very useful, nice, relaxing, helpful.



Photo was taken on the KANUmagazin Grand Canyon Trip 2004 by Michael Neumann.

[philcanoe]

. . .
I'm going to take a wild guess here that nobody on this forum routinely takes a birchbark canoe or a cedar stripper down class III/IV runs? . . .

I've paddled a 16' fiberglass flatwater boat more times than I care to count on class II and easy IIIs without flotation, sddles or a fixed kneeling pad. I've surfed it, run it over ledges, broken the thwart and bent everything so bad that I had to take the aluminum gunnels off to bend them back into shape, and right now it leaks like a seive. . .

yes....

paddling strip canoes on whitewater... and yes, you really don't want to trash one... the Ocoee and Viper's that are popular, just for instance .. and while not on class IV, they were on that perenially fav 'class III Ocoee', (mentioned only for reference) ... along with another half dozen stripers, I've built/paddled... all on class III-IV whitewater... what good does it do to test a whitewater canoe on less??? ....40-50 days maybe....

as for glass boats and river-running... it comes highly recommended... if there was one thing that could possibly help you more than any other... running glass boats would quite possibly be it ... even more than chunking the pump... that's why my S.Fly has lasted so long ... my 2 layer E-glass edge, is a good example ... it's got well over a couple hundred trips of being nakkid, on class III-IV ... that's what we always called running without air-bags (a state of being naked) ... i've another composite edge that's been all kind of places, like the Green for instance ... or a Hans-Sweet that routinely ran river's like the Upper Tellico, a great many naked

there's a GREAT number of boaters here, that paddle glass boats on whitewater ... methinks it's called whitewater slalom (isn't this where the term OC1 orig) ... and many, many, of these have done it without air-bags .. use to be against the rules to even have the normally used air-bag

however this is another topic....we're discussing electric pumps

[Dave C]

To get back to the serious business at hand...

Pumps have their points, both good and bad.

The good:
1) They make it easier to keep up with cruising decked boaters.
2) They're hands-off, which is good if you're in a micro eddy above a drop and hanging onto a bush to stay in place.
3) They make no-eddy boogie water a lot more fun.
4) The shower option shown above is a plus.

The bad:
1) The pump could become a crutch against poor paddling techinque. Skillfully dry is best.
2) A pump adds weight to the boat.
3) Maintenance issues.
4) Breakdowns happen.

The ugly:
Picture a boater with a High Float PFD, nose plugs, full cage Faceguard helmet and Dualie Pump with 10 AMP HR battery. It's just not cool. Actually, I think William Neeley drew this cartoon (or pretty close).

Pumps have their place. We just need to keep them in proper perspective.

[Louie]

talkin about Milt, or Steve Frazier, or about any butt boater right.

[Craig Smerda]

Here'z sum free intraneht postin' advyce.

(This belongs here)---> You talkin about Milt, or Steve Frazier, or about any butt boater right.

Louie... who in he11s be11s are you talkin' two?

Usin' the button shore wood halp make yer posts seam moore logikal.

[philcanoe]

now that's cute...yur post'n mite b better'n ur boat'n

[jscottl67]

Phil, I agree that you should be able to run a boat without a bilge, I often do. The glass was not my point, the 16' traditional canoe was. You are running glass boats but they are modern whitewater designs. Guessing you didn't run those boats with no outfitting at all?

I can run most boats dry, and there are a good few that I've paddled without a bilge with no problems. My boat...my first and (so far) only OC-1 is a Dagger Ocoee - pinched 2" in the front and 3" in the rear. Wood gunnels were added and the boat trimmed down by approximately 4" front and rear.

It is a very fun boat and trust me, it is still a boat beyond my abilities in many regards. Needless to say, it is a very wet boat. I can quarter it and lean it and time my stroke pretty well, but in a big wave train, I can either hit the edge of it, avoid it altogether, or have a bit of fun with it and cut on my pump. If I drive 6 hours one way to get on the Nanty, guess which I'm gonna do (though I have run it several times without it). How wet is this boat? At my weight, if I don't lean back a bit with it, Surfer's on the Nanty puts water over the bow.

I could have choosen an easier boat to paddle for a first boat (I did try a Cascade briefly, but didn't like it) no doubt. I went with something that I wouldn't outgrow, and the boat was already setup for a bilge when I got it. Perhaps one day, I will be able to run anything I want in it and keep it dry, or perhaps I will spend some more money and get a drier boat and use this on just tight, technical water.

Until then, my bilge is a bridge that gets me into a challenging boat that will build my skills and allow me to get on water where a drier boat is really needed. If that makes me a weenie or a wuss in your eyes, so be it. I'm still gonna use it.

[Craig Smerda]

now that's cute...yur post'n mite b better'n ur boat'n

Eye'm sandin' yu ah fer thet.

[Dave C]

Who would drill a hole in his boat for a hose?
It's like giving it a colostomy.

[Louie]

the way I write um it make you read um more closely. Go play in the snow I'm only a half an inch of rain away from play on the river.

[jscottl67]

Who would drill a hole in his boat for a hose?
It's like giving it a colostomy.

you don't have to drill a hole, you can be like a REAL OCer and hang it over the side if you want