Cross supports in the Zephyr

bradpr · Post by **bradpr** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:39 am

I just picked up a Zephyr with wood gunwales and a bulkhead outfit. The boat has 6 cross supports (across the gunwales). The center two are directly in front and behind the saddle and make for a cramped ride. I am tempted to remove the cross support that goes directly over the top back of the saddle. That would leave 5 supports in the boat.

Has anyone else observed this awkward configuration, and has anyone removed or repositioned supports to make better room in the boat?

Post by **sbroam** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:37 am

6 thwarts? Does that include the carry thwarts (handles) at the ends? Mine was originally outfitted with a pedestal and only had three thwarts, none crowding the cockpit area. I added one when I put in a bulkhead :

http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam ... 8200037634

But I will be removing that when I go back to thigh straps. I think you should be fine taking out a thwart.

bradpr · Post by **bradpr** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:34 pm

I was counting the carrying thwarts.

The biggest problem I have is that I'm 6'2 and have long legs. When getting in the boat, I catch my foot on the thwart right behind the saddle. If I can take it out or just reposition it 4-6" back, that would be a big help. I just don't want to impact the structural stability of the craft.

I actually was checking out your (sbroam's) pictures last week when trying to figure out if the cockpit thwarts were standard. It looks like the thwart you added was to provide thigh support?

I can't figure out why mine has the extra thwarts. Do you think the wood gunwales require extra support compared to the plastic gunwales, or did Esquif add the thwart to keep my saddle & bulkhead secured in the boat?

ncdavid · Post by **ncdavid** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:24 pm

Mine is factory-outfitted with a bulkhead. Six total thwarts. I'd be hesitant to remove the thwart from the back of the bulkhead, even though foam adheres well to Twintex.

Post by **sbroam** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Awkwardly, I can't view my own pictures here are work (photo sites are blocked!?) and I'm suddenly unable to remember of the back of the saddle has a thwart it is connected to - I think that thwart is back a bit... I think mine was originally set up like this :

http://www.middletonsboats.com/working% ... hyr350.jpg

If yours is similarly disconnected, I can't see why you couldn't move it back a couple of inches. I don't think the wood gunwales should make a difference - they may even be stronger than the vinyl/aluminum set up I have. Certainly ash will be more resilient. I've seem them snap back from considerable flexing - aluminum does not snap back...

The thwart I added (aluminum) was explicitly for the bulkhead. If your bulkhead setup has a thwart at the front and it is attached to it, I wouldn't move that one. I think that thwart is necessary to resist the torque and *uplift* of your thighs when rolling, leaning, etc.

A thwart bracing the pedestal (the back at least) is less necessary though it can contribute to the overall rigidity of the boat. [ A caution there - if your pedestal is braced under a thwart *too* rigidly you will likely see excessive wear as the hull will be unable to naturally flex up as you slide over rocks - when I have a boat set up that way I like to leave a little vertical play, yet secure it against side to side motion.] The pedestal under your seat is primarily under compression and the large contact patch is typically adequate to resist the torque you may exert on it.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:07 pm

My understanding is that with a bulkhead style saddle you really want 2 thwarts, one over the bulkhead area and one over the top of the back of the saddle, to ensure that the saddle stays in, as unlike on a saddle with thight straps, you not only put compressive, but also a lot of tensile stress onto the glue holding the saddle in place, and I am pretty sure that over time the glue might fail. It did in my Prelude.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Post by **sbroam** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:39 pm

Martin makes a good point. One note about my bulkhead set up - my pedestal is the original thigh strap pedestal and the bulkhead part is completely independent - they are not glued or otherwise attached. With a monolithic (? integrated?) bulkhead/saddle torque would certainly be transferred to the rear, too.

I'm planning to revert to thigh straps soon though, to make room for a camera box...

dan. · Post by **dan.** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:42 pm

Keep the thwarts. I am also 6'2" and squeeze into mine pretty good.

The zephyr needs the extra support.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:28 am

Hey sbroam, that Zephyr (Middleton's) is my friend Claude on the Wenatchee.

Anyway, my Outrage, with thigh straps, had the 2 basic, main thwarts, and I've actually added one behind my saddle because like having something to push against. Your feet will probably get used to where it is.

PY.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:03 pm

Ha! I just googled for Zephyr images, looking for one similar to mine!