Boat selection problems...

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:42 pm

Ok, I post a lot of questions on here, but I do search the forum first! So I apologize if this is bringing up an existing thread.

I am struggling with what OC-1 to get, its hard to test any boats out, especially when I buy them used, cant afford the new ones.

I started with a Dagger Rival, paddled it all spring and felt it was limiting, wanted something more responsive and better for the steeper and bigger stuff. So I sold it and got a prelude, thinking this was it, but for whatever reason I could not get the boat under me. I tried for days to figure it out, but to no avail...I am a pretty big guy and it was just to tippy!

Now I am thinking of buying a Zephry, does anyone have any comments about this boat?

I like paddling Class 3-4+ water, some steeper creeky stuff, but primarily I find myself on the Cheat, New, Lower Gauley and Lower Yough. I want to get my skills good enough for places like the Upper Yough, Upper Gauley, and Lower Big Sandy, will I grow out of this boat to fast?

Thanks for any feedback!

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:36 pm

Kabuki Blaze, how big are you? That will determine boat selection.

I (6'1", ~185 lbs) paddled the Zephyr several times on the Gull river in Minden Ontario, just running the river as well as for racing slalom. It has pretty good speed for it's length, accelerates well, carves nicely is very stable and handles very predictably. The low weight is very nice, too.
I found that it lacked a bit in maneuvrability, as it has pretty low rocker. I found it to be even a tad less maneuvrable than my Outrage, which is a foot longer, and a lot less so than the Prelude. That is something to keep in m,ind when looking for a boat for steep and rocky low volume runs. My benchmark for those kind of rivers (UY, Meadow Run, Mississagua, Drag and such) is still the Prelude. As far as running rocky rivers, be aware that the stern will take a beating and that twintex repairs are rather difficult.
It seemed also a tad wide for crossbow stokes.

In the end when It came down to buy a boat for OC racing and instructing as well as for the odd big water OC1 run I chose the Outrage.

The Zephyr is a good allround boat though, and will certainly hold up better than a royalex boat.
As far as maximum weight is concerned, it seems as if performance definitely deteriorates once the paddlers weight exceeds ~250 lbs.

Hope this helps.

TGG!

ckingoc1 · Post by **ckingoc1** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:47 pm

[quote="the great gonzo"]In the end when It came down to buy a boat for OC racing and instructing as well as for the odd big water OC1 run I chose the Outrage.

It is a good allround boat though, and will certainly hold up better than a royalex boat.

What is you'r Outrage made of?

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:53 pm

Sorry my last statement was a bit confusing, but I was talking about the Zephyr. My Outrage is royalex.

TGG!

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:18 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I am 6'3, about 215lbs on a good day. I worry a little about the twintex and hard hits while doing any type of smaller creekier stuff.

I was thinking hard about the Nitro or Detonator, just hard to find either of those used.

I want a boat that is more responsive than the Rival, but with some initial stability.

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:44 pm

kabuki i should be on the ly a few more times this summer, july 18, 19 next. i paddle a detonator and the guy with me will likely be in a nitro. maybe we run the loop together you can try boats?

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:51 pm

I'm in your weight range (215 on a good day, 220# most others) and while not the same height, I'm "tall from the waist up".

I've got a Zephyr - my comments are similar to Gonzo's - it's a good all around design, but it's the material that is it's strong (it's light!) and weak point (repairs?). I've had no problems with it and it has held up well to low water scraping for me, but I'm not banging it up on the steeps.

Boats to try :

Ocoee - tried one out last year - hot boat - a total hoot to paddle - easily handles the bigger guy - nice primary, rolls easy, great edge

Viper 12 - paddled one for years, loved it. I think it was faster than the Ocoee but not as maneuvable, otherwise similar. I'd like to try a Viper 11 for comparison

Spanish Fly - awesome boat even at 220#. See Craigs comments on the L'Edge thread

L'Edge - can't wait to try it. Time to start saving up...

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:33 pm

gumpy1114 wrote:kabuki i should be on the ly a few more times this summer, july 18, 19 next. i paddle a detonator and the guy with me will likely be in a nitro. maybe we run the loop together you can try boats?

Thanks for the offer!! I may take you up on that... I am thinking about going down to the NOC that weekend and just demoing some boats. I called them and they stated you can take a boat for an hour for free. I may have to just bite the bullet and get a new boat if I don't like the Zephyr (which I hope I do, so I can buy Jon's). They also have a used paradigm for sale as well.

They have both the nitro and detonator in stock, but pricey!

Regardless, we should get together and paddle the LY anyways!

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:35 pm

I second Sbroam's recommendation of the Spanish fly. Extremely stable and seems to float guys in your weight range well.
Slow boat though. And for bigger water, I would recommend adding a deflector of sorts to the front of the cockpit to keep the boat dryer.
A Quake would be a good choice, too. Somewhat similar handling to the Spanish Fly.

As far as th Viper and Ocoee are concerned, they are, like all royalex boats, not the first choice for running steeps.
They tend to get banged up badly.
As far as Detonator or Nitro, try befor buying for sure, as they are love or hate boats. I for one don't care for them at all.
The sharp chines on them get beat up badly on the steeps.
Bottom line is , how much steeps will you be running. If you do, then you might want to look more into plastic boats. If you're mainly on bigger water, then an RX boat should be fine.

TGG!

Atucky · Post by **Atucky** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:45 pm

I personally find that a combination of 2 boats is the way to go.

A larger, more forgiving royalex boat for bigger water, and a plastic boat for the steep, low volume runs.

I have a prophet and spanish fly. The spanish fly sees more days on the water by far. I find the prophet much better than people make it out to be. Different strokes I guess..

pblanc · Post by **pblanc** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:17 pm

If you go to NOC be sure to try the Esquif Spark.

I too loved the Viper 12. Had one and sold it years ago to buy a Dagger Prophet. Still have the Prophet and love it too. Upon the advice of Louie and some others here, i have turned it around and am paddling it "backwards " now. And I think it is better. Having the more extreme rocker in the rear really helps the stern clear ledges and having a little less rocker in front helps the bow to engage better in ferries and eddy turns.

Another bigger boat that might be worth trying if you can find someone who has one is the Mohawk Shaman.

sdbrassfield · Post by **sdbrassfield** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:11 pm

If you are going to do alot of creeking, I personally would be a little wary of the Spark (royalite)...I saw pics of one wrapped, gunnels cracked, and nearly ripped in half last week on a low water run on the Cheoah....

craig · Post by **craig** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:37 pm

I'm a little smaller than you 6' 190lbs. I like my Detonator for steep rivers, 100' per mile +/- gradiant and it is pretty dry too. Some say it is slow and on the flats it is, but in rapids I don't notice it. I had a Zoom for a year and could not get used to the lack of primary stability. It was a tad more nimble and drier than the Detonator, but not much. I have been painting the chines where it has worn off the vinyl with an ABS paint (diluted ABS paste) to keep the hull layer of ABS from wearing. I also paddle a composite Millbrook so even on the steeps I'd rather find the line with water than slide down a slightly lubricated rock if possible. If you are not in a rush, wait to try out a L'Edge, it may be worth the wait.

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:59 am

I'm going to add a "third" to SBroam's suggestions and second to Atucky's suggestion. I'm 6'4" and 190. I have a relatively high pedestal in my Spanish Fly and find the boat to have really good primary stability. It is plastic and tough. Also, the boat is fun to paddle. However, I also agree with Atucky. You need at least a second boat, and a big water OC would be a good choice. I have an Outrage, which is similar to your Rival. However, I haven't had the Outrage out since I got the Fly last summer. That should tell you which boat I like to be in.

Marc

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:18 am

Thanks for all the great feedback, this is great, really helps.

I think I may make that weekend at the NOC my "try as many boats as I possibly can", just want that boat with enough maneuverability and stability.

Does anyone want to paddle on the 17-19th?