What is too young too be on Whitewater?

blutopaddle · Post by **blutopaddle** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:25 pm

There is always some element of risk involved in being on the water, be it in a canoe, a rowboat, or a cruise ship. The risk is generally greater on moving water. However, I do not see a lot of difference between having an infant in a rowboat on a lake and having an infant in a canoe on moving water provided the adults (plural on purpose) in the canoe have lots of moving water experience.

That being said, there is no way to assess, visually, whether or not the adults taking an infant down the river have sufficient experience to be doing so. There are some clues, of course, but they are not foolproof. For instance, I would be concerned if I saw an infant on whitewater (even where all involved were in PFD's) if the adults were sitting up on the seats, with their top hands below the T-grips, wearing jeans, etc. In such a situation, I would be inclined to believe that these adults did not know the risks and did not have sufficient experience, and I would want them (for the sake of the infant) to benefit from my experience and I would attempt to speak with them. But the reality is that I do not know, based on only what I see, that adults who are kneeling, holding the paddle correctly, and wearing "normal" outdoor gear have sufficient experience either. Suppose their technique or boat control is not that great. Where should that line of casual intervention be drawn? It ain't easy.

A related issue (somewhat different than Louie's original question), has to do with youngsters attempting certain whitewater feats on their own. I confess that I do get a little concerned about the "youngest to do ______" status. It's great that a youngster runs Nantahala Falls or Baby Falls or Great Falls so long as it is part of their natural progression as a paddler, attempted when the conditions are right and with appropriate safety precautions (just as should be the case for adults). Again, based only on what I see, I do not know whether the youngster is at that point in his or her progression or is being pushed into something he or she is not prepared for. When I see such a situation, should I keep my concerns to myself because it is a free country where people can do what they want, or do I have some obligation to the sport and to my own conscience to speak up in a respectful manner? It can be a hard choice.

The point in this ramble is this: Perhaps we should all cut some slack to both the folks who are skeptical about infants or youngsters on whitewater AND the folks who are encouraging and watching over them. Both groups have good motives at heart.

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:48 am

Riverscout wrote:2. He ocassionally wants to get out of the boat to play in the water. (Never at a good time)
3. He likes to have his paddle in the water on the same side I'm paddling. I tried to go without giving him a paddle and he hangs over the side and hand-paddles

THAT was funny, Pete!

I really enjoyed seeing you, your boy and the whole posse out there for the armada. Can't wait to see the pics.

You are supposed to sit your kid in front of Barney all day, feed them junk and expect them to thnk for themselves when they are older. Which our society can not have any new self thinkers being groomed as is hard to go along with the norm than

Now, who can argue against that logic?

It's easy for someone who does not know or has not experienced it for themselves to be upset or angry over seeing a very young child on the river in a boat. I agree with developing a little tolerance toward them and exercising patience in that kind of encounter. I've got a 3 year-old girl we took out last year in our canoe starting in the spring and she has been enjoying that experience ever since. She asks me to take her canoeing and enjoys the whole moving water/swimming in water experience. Can't agree more with the importance of keeping it fun and enjoyable for THEM. Now, I gotta get her workin' on Keez's little tibit of child-rearing advice.

he loudly proclaimed to a large group of paddlers that kayaks suck.

Thanks for getting this post goin', Louie. I really like reading all the posts in this thread.

KNeal

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:57 pm

Started taking our kids along in the tandem when they were less than 2 years old. Easy, class 1 and low class 2 rivers that I had run before. Two or three chase boats manned by people I knew well. Very good weather and water conditions.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:34 pm

See Doc isn't this a refreshing change from the kiddy pool

bellotti · Post by **bellotti** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:42 am

I've been struggling with this recently. Been thinking of taking the kiddos (5,3,2) to the Hiwassee in Aug. I have a raft so I'm not too worried, surprisingly my wife is even less worried. They love flatwater floats and do well in the boat. Hmm, we'll see.

jakke · Post by **jakke** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:10 am

Take them on easy whitewater (I-II) and have someone they know as a safety boater, or better 2.
First in a raft, next in a tandem canoe, and then get them their own solo boat

. As long as they have fun.

Post by **PAC** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:26 pm

I've always add ice cream or another treat to the end of each paddling trip! That way they then equate paddling with treats! Rarely do you hear a "no" to "Want to go paddling and get ice cream?"!

My 14 yo figures we're going to stop for wings and shoots pool at of every paddling trip. Just part of the days events. Oh and the pub does serve cold brew too!

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:01 pm

My 21 yr old wants to stop at the bikinie bar after the river.

Post by **PAC** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:09 pm

I'm sure mine would want to go with yours now.... if I let him... and if there were good wings to be had!

blutopaddle · Post by **blutopaddle** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:30 pm

There is an easy stretch of the Tuckaseegee River in western North Carolina that starts near the Western Carolina University campus and runs down to the Webster/Sylva area. Many years ago, there was an ice cream store beside the bridge where Route 107 crossed over the river, about halfway down this stretch. We would float down and stop for ice cream, then my three year old would take a nap on the bow float bag during the second half of the run. She is now a teenager and, alas, paddles kayak most of the time, though she still hops in an open boat now and again. Perhaps I should try the ice cream bribes again in an attempt to encourage more time in canoes!

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:55 pm

Sir I think perhaps we are past the Ice Cream stage however the herd of teeneage boyscout which on going to be at the Hiawasee and Ocoee this weekend that might be a different story.

dirk · Post by **dirk** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:38 pm

I decided to start my kids (5 and 6) in kayaks to get them on the water quick. I also have a Dagger Caper with a tandem set-up for one kid up front (and if it ever rains again in TX, we will get to try it out). Some mentioned getting 8 year-olds in their own open boat. I would love to do the same as they get a bit older. I know of the Splash by Composite Creations, but too expensive for something I am not sure the kids will like. Does anyone have suggestions for other open boats that work well for kids? What is working for people?

Thanks,
Dirk

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:43 pm

I've had my 9 and 12 year olds in our Spanish Fly but just on a pond at this point - I think it will be a reasonable size, though probably a bit heavy.

I'm thinking the Zephy may work, too - longer, but lighter. The length helps tracking which should be a plus.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:57 pm

Quake, Teaureau, Spanishfly, Skeeter, Superfly, Aftershock, My 21 year old started in a Grygodog when he was 6 of course he got seven stiches, but hasn't been hurt since and he has paddle like 50 or 60 times a year. 8 and 12 year olds are in a Quake and a Teaurea, but fight over the Teaurea, so I am either goin to repo one or dig one out of the warehouse so all three of us can be in a Teaureau, I also have a Quake version one I am going to reoutfit so which every one has pissed me off that week I can punish by makin them use it. 12 year old will do her first solo trip on the Ocoee after I get back from Mexico wheather she wants too or not. My 21 yr old use to bow up on we and not want to paddled every now and again, but I made him go anyway and he ended up on theUS Jr. Slolom team team, ran suck creek in a play boat, got a first D on Conasauga creek ( ya Gabe just another BS 1 st d you ain't never done) and did the Narrow of the Green with out scoutin

jakke · Post by **jakke** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:35 pm

I think a zoom would do fine as well.

When they are a little older: 10-12 I've seen some amazing stuff by kids in a Mohawk probe 11. Very forgiving and not the hardest boat to accelerate.

C-Forum

What is too young too be on Whitewater?

How young is too young? Deep breath needed . . .

Ice cream incentives for younger boaters

Good open boats for kids