Growth of our sport

Decked Canoes, Open Canoes, as long as they're canoes!

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Craig Smerda
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Post by Craig Smerda »

How about having a Cboats.net pledge drive after January 1st that would run until right after ALF?

(Set it up as a super-sticky on the top of all the different forum pages and/or with a clickable banner complete with information and so on.)

If you could get set up with PayPal or something easy for people to give "what they can" it would work the best IMO... but I've still got an old fashioned checkbook and I'll be more than willing to stick a stamp on an envelope.

Viva L'Cboats!!! :wink:
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craig
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Post by craig »

If the young'uns won't give up the video games, and we can't zap them out of commission, maybe an action ww video game could be made to get some exposure. You could get it set up so that more points are won with a canoe. It "is" harder I'm told
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sbroam
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Post by sbroam »

Ha! I had my little guy out in a tandem sea kayak this weekend and he said "Dad, I think the canoe is easier." I think it might have had something to do with him being a small 7 year old and the deep cockpit being up in his armpits, but I didn't argue with him.
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Post by terrierpike »

As a newbie to the oc and a convert from kayaking, I can tell you the two main reasons I switched.

First, as a raft guide and kayaker I noticed a decrease in the number of canoes on the water but conversely those in canoes were always better boaters (Eli / Dooley / etc). Seeing someone boat well will motivate you to try their sport.

Second, I noticed what appeared to be a much more tight knit community of boaters. After meeting people like ncdavid and others from his site I have to say, it's true.

I think this great community is the best asset to grow the sport. Louie is right about the one on one converts, but the interest must come from a wider marketing scheme.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Ben Franklin
Louie

Post by Louie »

Just remember I ain't always right but I ain't never wrong
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Post by milkman »

I've come in late on this discussion, but see lots of good ideas.

Our club, the Lower Columbia Canoe Club, probably has the largest contingent of whitewater canoeists on the West Coast. We have about 35 diehard whitewater canoeists. We add slowly to that number, probably one a year. We get a few from the annual canoe classes we offer in the Portland area. We get a few kayaker to canoe conversions (often kayakers looking to move down a notch in Class and add challenge to easier whitewater). And members often get friends to try it, particularly those who already participate in fringe sports like telemark skiing. So I don't think it's a matter of one thing, but trying lots of things.

I don't see our sport as ever being as big as whitewater kayaking. But I do think we need to maintain or grow slowly to keep manufacturers interested in serving our market. I think the best we can do is be opening to showing and telling people about our sport and letting them try it. I know many of us have small fleets of canoes and I keep two canoes just as demos for people who are interested in trying our sport.

I agree with the ideas of not making our sport sound hard. It's not that hard until you get up into more difficult classes of water. Lately I've been seeing it as a sport that has a lot of dimensions to it in terms of strokes and stroke efficiency--one that continually offers new levels of learning challenges that makes it ultimately addicting.
Louie

Post by Louie »

Well milkman I ain't sure when you started but when I did there were a lot of canoes and the only butt boats you saw were home made glass ones. It use to be you would see TSRA, ETWW, TVCC with the dad in real boats and when their old ladies made them take the kids along the dads would put them in butt boat because it was easier for the kids and less work for the dads. My son flimflamed me when he was six and tired of boatin tandom and wanted his own boat " I need a C1, I ain't big enought to dump an open boat" Of course he got seven stiches in his eyebrow his first time in his own boat when we did Tellico.
I think we will convert more buttboater to real boats when we shame them into tryin a more challenagein boat. " that large steaming pile of dog doo is easy with two blades" trype of comments can shut up a bunch of mouthy pods. No at one time we were the dominate craft and we can be again.
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Post by jscottl67 »

Louie wrote:Well milkman I ain't sure when you started but when I did there were a lot of canoes and the only butt boats you saw were home made glass ones.
Yeah, but we can't un-invent plastic. 8)
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Craig Smerda
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Post by Craig Smerda »

Louie wrote:I think we will convert more buttboater to real boats when we shame them into tryin a more challenagein boat. " that large steaming pile of dog doo is easy with two blades" trype of comments can shut up a bunch of mouthy pods. No at one time we were the dominate craft and we can be again.
From post Gauleyfest...
Louie wrote:we must have had a hundred people sit in the thing (L'edge prototype). Many were butt boaters. My son who would never paddle anything but a C1 even sit in it.
Y'all remember the famous quote from the movie "Field of Dreams"??? :lol:

One can hope... :wink:
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Post by 2opnboat1 »

After reading post after post I have grown tired of this thread. Some of us want it to grow others dont. My main reason for wanting to see growth is it is the only way for new boats, material and methods to come about. It is hard for a canoe company to invest huge amounts of time and money into r&d and only ssale 10 to 15 boats. Kinda like gambleing with very little pay back. Thank everyone for there great ideas.
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philcanoe
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Post by philcanoe »

I like several of Dooley's ideas, he had some really good ideas... as well as others... like churches, and schools... I taught environmental education with the Cahaba River Society taking school groups on day trips. Where they went tandem, and we did minimal instruction, and just got them down (easy but flowing flat water). There was a lot of interest generated this way. Simple - fun instruction - no scare tactics - we were more interested in showing, this is your drinking water - protect it trips.

I also agree with the post a couple pages back (2lazy2 look it up) it's a different day and age... we grew up banging off of, falling out of, and slamming into... most everyone did. Today it's extremes. There's the sit at a console crowd (oh-large steaming pile of dog doo) with their wii's, and the skateboard-xgame crowd. The timid do not want any part, and the less than timid... want more. If I was a kid looking at a canoe or a kayak. It'd be a no brain'er. Saw this with my nephews, right away. Like hey, I want one of those. I'm merely pacifying them, by saying learn to paddle one of these, and then paddling one of those things will be easy (and it's better - to do both).

We need to been seen doing canoe moves... running clean, stomping some big drop, and styling the same move as a deckboat (but better because it's done open). That's why we canoe. Because maybe we perceive it as one upping the others, that not just anyone can do it. Or maybe it's just the challenge, of seeing how far you can really progress. No matter how cool we (some) think it looks to go flip over in a hole, and imitate kayak moves... it's just ain't so**. A canoe that looks like a kayak, pulling off kayak moves, really just perpetuates a why do they do it ...** instead of a "I want to do that". Mark my word someone is going to take offense, and say I got into the sport because of this... Just think global first-this is not about you or the three others... I'm talking big picture, as in how many look at this and go oH-Boy that's me. The day's of there being more open canoes on whitewater is gone. It's too easy to learn in a kayak, and over the years have even gotten easier (for instance - a sweep is an optional play move). The time commitment is less and rewards almost immediate. As much as I chide the use of electric pumps, they certainly make the sport more attractive to those who gave up because of constant dumping.

However to grow the sport - We need to become less of the we are better boaters, and more of the you can do it too. I believe we ought to draw more from the ranks of your average kayaker. The learning curve was always, canoe then kayak... if maybe a kayak then canoe idea could be fostered. There's the guy who's maxed out, and not wanting to run OMG-Creek. The guy who might find it enjoyable to test himself again, without risk life-or-limb. And maybe just find something challenging in his backyard, instead of a thousand miles away. The cost savings alone would pay for the boat.

_____________
**
((sorry to slam some peoples hard work and efforts, but it's a big sport and some feel this way)... wishing all of you luck, but there are always varying opinions in life). I stopped rodeo when it stopped doing canoe moves, I canoe and don't turn over on purpose... it just happens. I play hard (surfs-spins), and make it look fun (tell'em it's easy) , and get deckboaters trying it all the time... how many kayakers ever just jump in and attempt throwing-ends in a canoe... it's usually causes the opposite reaction w/the inevitable don't you get tired of dumping. :roll:
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Post by yarnellboat »

Milkman,

Good ideas - we to take fleets of demo canoes and other promo materials to kayak festivals and telemark festivals, not canoe festivals!

I too have heard from many kayakers who have families now etc. and want to back off from the class V stuff, so would consider trying a canoe, often going back to a canoe, which they's tried younger but then went for extremme kayaking.

On the other hand, I also know a lot of aging canoeists who have gone to butt-boats because of ease or knees.

So, Richard, find some telemark and kayak fests and go get Mohawk some new customers!

Pat.
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Post by johnd »

Sorry, the sport is not going to grow because there are only so many rivers, and major cities are generally not located near whitewater. Therefore, people have to spend hours and hours driving. The only people willing to do that are fanatics or retired people with nothing much to do. You can make all kinds of suggestions, analysis, but your population base is rather limited, particularly for something that requires such a large investment. Even skiing is cheaper, investment wise.

Your best bet to increase the number of people in the sport would be to forget about the boats, and concentrate on building whitewater parks in each city.
Louie

Post by Louie »

OK so we are goin to have to draw all the new boater from Knoxville, Ashville, Chattanooga, Birmingham and well I am sure there are some big cities somewhere near West Virginia, Oh ya Washington D.C., Richmond Va. Too bad everthing is so spread out out there in Cali land. Too bad for you. Maybe you and Larry Horn could hook up , no not the way guys hook up in Califorina I mean boat together.

Wait a minute isn't there Whitewater near Seattle and up around some of those cities. Ya you Cali boater with so far to drive could move up there, people in Washington and Oregon like you people from Cali movin up there don't they?
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so

Post by 2opnboat1 »

Well that is the first time I have heard this. Its funny the sport used to be larger. THis maybe the outlook in Cali. but on the east cost things are growing
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