How do you slow down

jroneil · Post by **jroneil** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:33 pm

I watch some of the posted videos and most of the video you are going pretty slow into the rapids and making the turns and things. This gives you have time to think.

I enter the rapid pretty slow then my speed picks up very quickly it is like I am flying. I do have to choose my eddies carefully because their are a lot that I do not fit in.
Now could it be the boat length and my weight?
Outrage X was I was 290 now I am down to 260.
My trim on the boat is almost perfectly level also .

I usually leave a lot of room between me and the person in front of me otherwise I will overtake them then it can get messy.

Also while this is happening because I am going so fast that my boat wants to go into a spin.
I do back paddle and it does slow me down a bit but it also wants to spin me

Any idea's

Winslett · Post by **Winslett** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:52 pm

It comes down to planning prior to running.

Pull out before the rapid to plan your moves. If you want to catch eddies, study the rapid. Bookmark in your mind what you plan to see as you go through the rapid, particularly your entrance point. Run the rapid by looking where you want to go. When you are done, determine if your plan matched your outcome.

If it did, do it again. If it didn't, do it again.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:01 pm

1. spin around and do upstream ferries - I do this to slow things down when there isn't an eddy to catch
2. eddies you don't "catch" can still slow things down - sometimes I just duck in and out, like a slalom racer, that still gives me a second to look at things or set up the next move
3. work on your back paddling - it is possible to back paddle without spinning, try reverse J's or correct with a cross stroke (covered some in Solo Playboating?)

kaz · Post by **kaz** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:07 pm

jroneil,
Basically, you are in a fast boat. If you want to go slower, get a boat that is less than 10' long.

JKaz

jroneil · Post by **jroneil** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:09 pm

jroneil,
Basically, you are in a fast boat. If you want to go slower, get a boat that is less than 10' long

Thats is what I thought i think I am still too big for a less than 10 foot boat I want to try and loose another 30 lbs

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:21 pm

Three things

1 - I agree 100% with what Scott said on the turining it upstream. 2 - You may also want to trim it just a little bit bow heavy to help with the tendency to spin out on you. 3- You will want to be moving either faster than or slower than the current - I tend to go for faster. If slower, remember that you are basically doing a back ferry if you have any angle to the current

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:24 pm

sbroam wrote:1. spin around and do upstream ferries - I do this to slow things down when there isn't an eddy to catch
2. eddies you don't "catch" can still slow things down - sometimes I just duck in and out, like a slalom racer, that still gives me a second to look at things or set up the next move
3. work on your back paddling - it is possible to back paddle without spinning, try reverse J's or correct with a cross stroke (covered some in Solo Playboating?)

Yep! especially #2 !
..don't blame the boat. You need to read the water and make it to do the work for you.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:42 pm

jroneil wrote:
jroneil,
Basically, you are in a fast boat. If you want to go slower, get a boat that is less than 10' long
Thats is what I thought i think I am still too big for a less than 10 foot boat I want to try and loose another 30 lbs

I beg to disagree here.

You had a lot of very good advices in the other replies above. Yes it is a fast boat, but that is basically an advantage on every runs but steep low water creeks; my suggestions would be to practice on the other tips given above:

1- scout and plan ahead; feeling you are unsure of what to do will make the rapid look like it goes too fast for ya!

2- back J strokes - they work wonder.

3- 180degree turn and back ferry when needed.

4- work on your overall boat control, leaning to use your boat's bottom and get a powerful forward stroke that makes you go straight (straight shaft, paddle forward up to hips only and boat lean)

5- Also a very good advice to go faster or slower than the current, depends on what you plan to do: faster to punch holes and big waves, slower to catch eddies and surf, etc. Again, it goes down to planning ahead. Floating along with the current you have no power over the river and your strokes feels innefective.

Remember: that ain't no kayaking! Solo playboating sure needs a lot of practice and you'll get your share of swims but if you keep safe you'll have a lot of fun making attaintments on smaller features, then steeping up.

PS. at your weight you've got to love that boat, and paddling it may also help dropping some pounds off anyways!

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:54 pm

I've found that slamming into rocks will help

But seriously folks... at times just moving at the speed of the current can benefit you... knowing how to read water and using micro eddies to momentarily stall you or slow you down... that helps as well to get where you gotta go. If you are just hanging in the main flow cruising along and need to kill momentum a few quick back stabs with the blade works too... that... or just hit a few rocks.

Do any of you still use a "back ferry"? It's not something you see done very often any more... but I can recall doing a few over the years.

jroneil · Post by **jroneil** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:59 pm

I tend to go for faster. If slower, remember that you are basically doing a back ferry if you have any angle to the current

I also tend to go faster which I do not have much of a problem with
I pull into and eddie the back end of the boat is still in the current and pulling me backward. When I can no longer hold it I will either back out and spin around and or go backwards for a little while then spin.
I am really not having any problem going through the rapid I just wanted to try and slow it down a little.

One of the things I do also is I have a tendency of picking the higher faster water because if i do not I drag on the bottom (then I go slow and need to use the gunnel grab to get unstuck)

There are places which people go with smaller boats and they are lighter that if i went I would get stuck This usually happens with water less than a foot deep ( it happens less since I lost the weight)

I've found that slamming into rocks will help

I do that!

I hit them sides ways head on and go over them sometimes especialy if there is a large group(15-20 boats) of us because I have to make a change at the last second
Small groups 2-5 boats same rapid lot easier you get to pick your line and noone is fighting you! Especially if you have the faster boat
the kayaks make excelent speed bumps also

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:35 pm

jroneil wrote:I watch some of the posted videos and most of the video you are going pretty slow into the rapids and making the turns and things. This gives you have time to think.

If we're watching the same videos, I saw a lot of lazy paddling, which got people into trouble in several instances (e.g. getting back-surfed in a small but grabby drop.) In order to control your fate in a rapid, you need to be moving faster or slower than the current. Otherwise, you're just flotsam, regardless of the length of your craft. I was sitting looking at my monitor, saying, "Paddle, dam it!"

The best paddlers I know are always either actively making a move, or securely in an eddy. The advantage of a stumpy boat is its ability to spin and accelerate into small eddies. A longer boat will make the ferries and cross the eddy lines where speed is required. To me, the key to paddling harder water is having the confidence to move into and out of the main flow, and breaking each rapid into bite-sized moves.

And most of all,
WHEN IN DOUBT, PADDLE LIKE hades!

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:46 pm

jroneil wrote:I pull into and eddie the back end of the boat is still in the current and pulling me backward. When I can no longer hold it I will either back out and spin around and or go backwards for a little while then spin......

There are places which people go with smaller boats and they are lighter that if i went I would get stuck This usually happens with water less than a foot deep ( it happens less since I lost the weight)
:

Try moving the saddle forward maybe an inch if you can. It should make the turning into the eddy a little quicker and will also unweight the back just a touch - may help with holding it in the eddy too.

A smaller (shorter) boat would drag bottom even more. A hull with a flatter bottom would bottom out less, but only an inch or so difference really (if that).

jroneil · Post by **jroneil** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:39 pm

Thanks everyone this is what I got

The boat is probably going at the right speed and I not going to want to slow it down to much (I usually paddle faster than the current unless someone cuts me off then I try and slow down or take another route this is usually when I swim because I will hit a rock sideways trying to get another route to late) I may want to go faster in some cases

Moving the seat no I did that this spring moved it forward and backward where it is now it is most comfortable and i have the most control leaning forward I can add the extra weight when it was bow heavy I would just cross the eddie line get stuck and the current would wip me and spin me right back into the current

I am not going to get a smaller boat unless I loose a lot of weight even if I did my height is from the waist up I sit very high in the saddle

I have not done the backward j i am going to work on trying that

When I come to a ledge I paddle like Hades otherwise I get stuck and go swimming

Leaning I am a lot better than I was at the beginning of the season but still working on it

What I am also doing better now is planting the paddle and using my hips to bring the boat forward.

2. eddies you don't "catch" can still slow things down - sometimes I just duck in and out, like a slalom racer, that still gives me a second to look at things or set up the next move

This I haven't done I don't fit so I just shoot by and that just adds to my speed. I had the notion in my head if I can not catch it do not try So if i just poke in for a couple second that should slow me down enough to catch the next one I would miss because I was just going to fast

In the spring I am going to see kaz about a lesson so he can see what I am doing wrong which I am sure is a lot. I am basically self tought from watching other people and getting tips like this and from people on the river
I did also learn I do like paddling in smaller groups

Mr.DeadLegs · Post by **Mr.DeadLegs** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:43 pm

I know it is not much shorter, but I have had an Outrage X before and weigh around 250 and am 6'7", when you want to try a new boat hop into the Viper 12. It preforms well with guys of our size and the edges will give you the ablilty to carve into an eddy like never before.

jroneil · Post by **jroneil** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:57 pm

Outrage X before and weigh around 250 and am 6'7", when you want to try a new boat hop into the Viper 12.

I was probably to big for that when I was 290. Right now I am at a plateau so I am hoping to start loosing again. I am getting a new Caption because the old one was defective
I was paddling it solo on flat water(before returning it) and I noticed how much more control I had with that boat on flat water than the Outrage X
Paddling it tandem with my wife I was getting in eddies I never got in with the Outrage X. The new one will either be a triple pedestal or solo set up it carves very nice

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How do you slow down

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Re: How do you slow down