General outfitting question for C-1

[River Rogue]

I am converting a Z to a C-1 and looking for general info if anyone has any insights/knowledge on how to do it. Any suggestions on strengthening the hull after I take the saddle out?
I thought if I could minimize the number of times I had to tear the outfitting back out, the faster I could get on the water.
Thanks for any help and paddle safely.

[wayne]

Look at the outfitting page on this site it has a lot of great info on how to do it. But me I like just making it up as I go along. That's way I do most my boat ajustments over winter so you are not in a hurry to get back on the water and make a good job out of it.

[River Rogue]

Yes, I have found a great deal of information online, in this website and in others. I just thought I would see if anyone had some personal experience with the Z, etc.
As for not paddling in the winter....that's when the best stuff is running! Our winters in SE USA are pretty mild compared to yours. But you are right, I am trying to keep my enthusiasm in check in order to do this right.
Thanks for your post and stay warm.

[ncdavid]

Where are you located, River Rogue? I have a converted X that you could study. I'm near Charlotte.

[PAC]

I don't think you really need to re-enforce the hull. Cing locates your body different so in most boats (at least Wavesports) you just need to take the K seat out and put a C saddle in. The issue is how you attach that saddle and how you plan to hold yourself in.
I've seen the Z outfitted a couple different ways. Full mini cell with a lap block and outfitted in Team etc fashion. Both worked really well and the Z seemed to paddle quite nicely as a C in both configurations.
The question for you is what materials do you have access to, how much do you want to spend, and have you tried some other C1s to get ideas as to what you like. Block vs straps, etc.
Half the fun of Cing is making the boat fit you. I've been told by my K buddies that C1ers are a bit annual when it comes to their particular out fitting. Guilt as charged!
Take a look at the Team etc, fence post out fitting, etc, then when you figure out a direction you feel comfortable with let us know. Lots of folks here have great ideas and experience on fitting a boat and will be more then willing to give you some insight!
Good luck and keep us posted.'
PS: If interested I have some X and XXX outting photos I can send you. Just PM me. I off to the slopes for the weekend so you'll get them Monday if you want them.

[NZMatt]

Howdy River Rogue,

I live in the NE US now, but grew up in New Zealand. The winters there are actually pretty mild unless you're in the mountains (definitely in the north island where Wayne is). Sure, it'll be frosty in the mornings and the daily high will often be below 50F (10C), but compared to here at the moment (I was skiing at ~5F today and that was the high!) that sounds truly tropical Based on paddling up here, I think paddling year around in the north island of NZ would be fine - if the rivers run, then you can always paddle

Not as warm as the southeast, I know, but it's not exactly severe either The New Zealand climate is an island and as such is pretty moderate as all that water helps stabilise temperatures, although it can also result in some pretty cool storms

Matt

[Mike W.]

Where are you in the SE? I'm in Roanoke Rapids, NC. I've got a Big EZ that I converted. It's about the same cockpit as the Z & you're welcome to check it out & paddle it to see what you think.

It snowed last night & today. The high tomorrow is supposed to be 31. I need to work on the screw up in the Viper so I'm paddling

Mike W.

[River Rogue]

I currently live in Birmingham, but often drive to whatever is running in the NC/TN or SC/GA borders.

Thanks for the info on NZ...sounds like if I visited, I would never come back.

I have a great deal of foam to work with, but the saddle is sketchy. I bought a voyageur saddle from a local paddling shop, but it is way too big. I don't mind cutting it down, I just thought I would look for something else before I got the saw out. In my OC1, I paddled with double thigh straps with the balls of my feet firmly against the hull, so I really like the feeling of being solidly secured in my boat. However, if I can minimize the outfitting to be simple-stupid, I think it would be better for those inevitable anaerobic conditions.
At the moment cost is not too terribly important, since we are talking about comfort and keeping blood flow to my feet.
I am familiar with Team Edge outfitting and really like what I have seen with the Mike Yee stuff.

And I think I will fit in nicely if being anal-retentive is a personality trait of c-boaters!

Thanks for everyone's input!

[Timzjatl]

for good easy outfitting I prefer the dagger/harmony console setup. www.kayakoutfitting.com sells the setup, and has a good writeup. I paddle the same stuff as you, but based out of atlanta, so its likely you'll see me somewhere. Look for a Yellow H2 with foam block outfitting, or a yellow Vibe with dagger stuff
Good Luck
Tim

[chuck naill]

I had a boat outfitted and was too far toward the stern even though I was sitting dead center. An outfitter said that the sitting position should be at least 8" from the inside edge of the cockpit rim. I reconfigured and am now 9" which allows me to reach around the bow keeping the paddle in the water. He also gave me some pointers re paddleing these flat bottom boats. He said they needed to be paddled from the bow which I was not doing effectivily. I was ruddering through stuff like I did when I was paddling longer displacement hulls. He emphysized quick, short strokes which makes being bow forward in you c boat more important.

I made a template out of thin card board for the bulkhead and then traced it on a peice of 4 inch minicell. I have a dagger pedistal with velcro release thigh straps. My knees are just under the bulkhead. THe bulkhead also serves to keep my knees wide, providing a more stable ride. It is a work in progress because the weather and schedules have not allowed for as much river tweeking as I would like.

Regards.
Chuck

[Guest]

Good morning everyone....and thanks for the great info. I am familiar with the Dagger saddle, but was afraid it was no longer in production after Dagger pooped out on producing openboats. Thank you so much for the link; I just now forwarded it to my local paddling shop in hopes they can order it and I can do a switcheroo on this honkin' piece of foam that I bought. I assume that after looking at the picture of the Dagger saddle, one would cut their own foam and glue it to the top (same for knee/ankle pads)?

In theory, I know I am going to have to change the way I paddle, especially changing to much much shorter strokes. The good news about that is hopefully doing all of my cross strokes will be easier since the hull is so much narrower.

Overall I am very excited and am taking it out on a local river this morning for my maiden voyage....and if anyone sees a blue/black Z with a goofy grinning girl paddling it...that would be me.

Again, thanks for the wonderful info. Paddle safely and stay warm!

[chuck naill]

Dear Mr. Rogue,
You can order the Dagger pedistal for $55 from that link you mentioned and do the work yourself. It is not hard at all and since you might need to move it forward or back, it might pay to experiment with it some. It seems that the outfitting takes on a life of its own and c boaters are magically drawn to it.

You are correct about the foam in the middle. If you use a 3" peice, it fits snuggly in the front groove of that pedistal. You can then cut another peice that would fit like a t accross and make your bulk head that way.

Thigh straps can be moved back and forth and other holes can be added for a custom fit. I have used the centers of d rings, the kind that use very thick material to hold the ring, and use those to attach an anchor for you thigh straps to the sides of the boat.

For thigh straps, seat belt material works well and you can get velcro from most sewing stores. Get the kind that is meant to be sewed and not glued however.

[canoer1]

Yes, I have found a great deal of information online, in this website and in others. I just thought I would see if anyone had some personal experience with the Z, etc.
As for not paddling in the winter....that's when the best stuff is running! Our winters in SE USA are pretty mild compared to yours. But you are right, I am trying to keep my enthusiasm in check in order to do this right.
Thanks for your post and stay warm.

I hve a "Z" that i outfitted for a C-1 . It makes a great C-1, surfs well, and a great down river boat. I think you will like it as a C-1

[RiverRogue]

Hello again and thanks to all for the great feedback.

My maiden voyage went deliriously well and my memories of paddling an openboat are sadly fading fast. I was able to borrow a friend's old dagger pedestal saddle and I liked the simplicity of it. That is probably what I will go with.

There were only a few problems that I am sure I will be able to tweak out with time...and if not, well....having full feeling in one's feet has always been overrated.

In response to a previous post, I already have some thigh straps (although doubles) leftover from my openboat...2" tubular webbing pre-sown from Roger Scott's near the Ocoee. If I use straps and not a bulkhead, I will probably use a couple of D-rings or make use of the two screws just on of either side of the cockpit rim. Does anyone have any suggestions as to an adhesive to use? I have been told that my good old Weldwood cement does not adhere to vinyl, and vinyl adhesive does not adhere to plastic.

And by the way...it is Ms. Rogue.

[C-1 Duh]

I think using screw-bolts is much better than any glue for attaching the ends of thigh straps to a plastic deck.

Even if the current holes are in the wrong place, drilling a couple of extra small holes won't hurt your boat. But having a thigh strap come loose can be hazardous to your health!

If the straps need to be repositioned, buy some new hardware and just leave the old screw-bolts (and washers) in place to plug the hole. A little silicone based "c-lent" will satisfy the more obsessive among us.

Ask PAC to send you his pictures of his Z outfits, as he is very experienced at doing these things. His Dagger saddle setup is probably the easiest way to go, and will have you on the water sooner. Something more elaborate may evolve after you have had more "time in the boat."

Do you have the canoe outfitting book by Charlie Walbridge? Amazon has it online in pdf format for $5. NOC has it, as well. It has a few general rules to keep in mind when setting up your boat.

You will want to pay special attention to his safety warnings about being able to release from your outfittting. C-boating is somewhat more demanding than open-boating in that regard.

Don't you just love how easy your C-boat makes that carry to the car at the takeout?

Isn't having an enclosed deck (and no bailer!) a simply wonderful idea?

Hasn't wave surfing become a pure joy (and much more interesting)?

Just remember to tuck when you get your first "un-intendo"!!!