I was thinking about an inner layer of vinyl too. I actually sewed new daisy chains on one large piece of vinyl, although that vinyl is not very thick (thinner than the original NW but was all I had).
I had planned to use flexible contact cement to glue down the PVC over the ABS and Vinyl strap mounts on top of that.
Now ordered the G Flex and waiting for that.. first things first ;D
Cheers,
Jan
Glue cracked my Royalex - Royalite - R84
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mahyongg,
You could use G/Flex again to bond the daisy chains in ('course, that would be near impossible to remove later). I agree with Pat--that seems like alot of extra work to put more vinyl in.
I do think you absolutely should stop-drill and seal those cracks before you cover them up with the abs. Its only a matter of time before water gets under that patch, and you don't want it finding its way into the royalite layers. It might even be worth it to "caulk" the edges of the patch/hull interface with GOOP to seal it up. I'd also paint the area of abs sheet that is still visible after all the outfitting is back in place. You don't want the UV to make your patch brittle.
-Ray
You could use G/Flex again to bond the daisy chains in ('course, that would be near impossible to remove later). I agree with Pat--that seems like alot of extra work to put more vinyl in.
I do think you absolutely should stop-drill and seal those cracks before you cover them up with the abs. Its only a matter of time before water gets under that patch, and you don't want it finding its way into the royalite layers. It might even be worth it to "caulk" the edges of the patch/hull interface with GOOP to seal it up. I'd also paint the area of abs sheet that is still visible after all the outfitting is back in place. You don't want the UV to make your patch brittle.
-Ray
I believe permanent is what HE wants...
If in fact this setup was no longer the desired one, I'm more than sure a little work with a sharp edge on the daisy chain, and a bit of sanding (non-mechanical or powered) would undo any vinyl patch known to man (while wearing a respirator/filter of some type of course). Without any plasticizers or solvents, it would seem that repairs should be reversible. And that potential damage to the foam substrate should be minimal (if any). The likely hood of damage would appear to be greater and thus more permanent, when using some solvent based evaporative.
Go for it, and good luck... I've been pleased so far with G-Flex on my glass boats, but have not used on ABS. It did flex incredibly well in some test pieces, without the first failure.
If in fact this setup was no longer the desired one, I'm more than sure a little work with a sharp edge on the daisy chain, and a bit of sanding (non-mechanical or powered) would undo any vinyl patch known to man (while wearing a respirator/filter of some type of course). Without any plasticizers or solvents, it would seem that repairs should be reversible. And that potential damage to the foam substrate should be minimal (if any). The likely hood of damage would appear to be greater and thus more permanent, when using some solvent based evaporative.
Go for it, and good luck... I've been pleased so far with G-Flex on my glass boats, but have not used on ABS. It did flex incredibly well in some test pieces, without the first failure.
Sure, anything can be undone with the right...POWERTOOL!
G/Flex so far for me
Direct to abs: awesome...so far bombproof
Direct to Vinyl: on curved surfaces (chines) bond fails pretty quickly no matter prep method (haven't flame-treated yet). On flat surfaces with roughly even load dispersement (thigh strap anchors) seems at least as strong as vynabond, has lasted through many river trips and 50-100 rolls @ roll practice.
Salad Tongs: Very Poor bond strength.
off topic but i just can't resist...philcanoe wrote:... I've been pleased so far with G-Flex on my glass boats, but have not used on ABS. It did flex incredibly well in some test pieces, without the first failure.
G/Flex so far for me
Direct to abs: awesome...so far bombproof
Direct to Vinyl: on curved surfaces (chines) bond fails pretty quickly no matter prep method (haven't flame-treated yet). On flat surfaces with roughly even load dispersement (thigh strap anchors) seems at least as strong as vynabond, has lasted through many river trips and 50-100 rolls @ roll practice.
Salad Tongs: Very Poor bond strength.
First R lite was never ment for ww boats it is great for rec boats but not so good on ww boats. As for glue craking r lite or royalex yep it can happen.And will if to much glue is applied. The MEK in the glue eats the outer layer of the boat in the Case of R lite it eats the Corad the color sheet. and this makes a week spot that allows for the hull to flex and then the cracking to begin. Ways to fix Not buy R LITE ww boats. Sometimes a few pounds is worth the weight.
Richard Guin
Lazy good for nothing slacker
Lazy good for nothing slacker
@ Mr. Ray: Sorry, I don't own a power tool other than a drill.. which means, hand sanding for me (for now..).
@2-1: Yes, might have been the MEk in the glue, looked like a little much too. Weightwise, well no worries - its ok if you try to avoid rocks, the Spark is well capable of that. Also if the boat shall fit the paddler, its probably better fitted for who paddles it weight-wise than if I would paddle a Nitro-Pig.. but I don't. But MY Spark is also not broken (yet).
And where is all the fun if you don't have to repair something from time to time..
;D
@2-1: Yes, might have been the MEk in the glue, looked like a little much too. Weightwise, well no worries - its ok if you try to avoid rocks, the Spark is well capable of that. Also if the boat shall fit the paddler, its probably better fitted for who paddles it weight-wise than if I would paddle a Nitro-Pig.. but I don't. But MY Spark is also not broken (yet).
And where is all the fun if you don't have to repair something from time to time..
;D
There is an Upside....
those durability issues will (for sure) make you a better boater. Just knowing that you really need to miss that rock, and having patched that very same boat will pay off in dividends later on. All those years of paddling glass boats on creeks, certainly has made my roto-molded boat outlast those of my decked boater friends.
And with R-Lite it's not like you have to miss every rock, just that it would be better to... all the while having a light boat to do it with.
enjoy!
those durability issues will (for sure) make you a better boater. Just knowing that you really need to miss that rock, and having patched that very same boat will pay off in dividends later on. All those years of paddling glass boats on creeks, certainly has made my roto-molded boat outlast those of my decked boater friends.
And with R-Lite it's not like you have to miss every rock, just that it would be better to... all the while having a light boat to do it with.
enjoy!
Finally.. took some time cause I could only work in the evenings and my living room too, so it even killed a paddling day.. but now its near completion.
Here are some images from the process:
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/mahyongg/album/182861
And please don't blame me for the small ABS sheets, I hope they will not be a problem.. at least they are completely glued down and beveled & edge-sealed with G/Flex & microfibers.
So what y'all think?
;D
cheers,
Jan
Here are some images from the process:
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/mahyongg/album/182861
And please don't blame me for the small ABS sheets, I hope they will not be a problem.. at least they are completely glued down and beveled & edge-sealed with G/Flex & microfibers.
So what y'all think?
;D
cheers,
Jan
Shythe.. I guess I went a little too far with the big daisy chain patch, one it was too thin (the material bunched up and wrinkled when rolling it down to the flexible contact cement I use) and two it was too flimsy (tore it right off due to the wrinkles and realised it would have torn off really quick anyhow - right in the midle between the PVC and textile layer..)
;(
now the saddle will have to go in as usual - right down to the abs. I have postponed the hard part, removing all the contact cement from the abs sheets, to another week though..
cheers,
Jan
;(
now the saddle will have to go in as usual - right down to the abs. I have postponed the hard part, removing all the contact cement from the abs sheets, to another week though..
cheers,
Jan
Update!
First paddle in the boat, no damage visible or felt, although it was an easy II with not much rock hitting so it will have to prove itself another time..
I glued in the saddle directly now, according to Kaz' input and it seems to be quite the right position.. how come, btw. thanks again Kaz! You're the best!
Open up!
Jan
First paddle in the boat, no damage visible or felt, although it was an easy II with not much rock hitting so it will have to prove itself another time..
I glued in the saddle directly now, according to Kaz' input and it seems to be quite the right position.. how come, btw. thanks again Kaz! You're the best!
Open up!
Jan
Lol re paddling a composite boat makes one a better boater. I started off in a Grumman 17' with a shoe keel. It does the same thing. One sure doesnt want to hit rocks in that thing.
The funny thing is that now folks see that canoe (retired from ww use last year when I decided that new canoes were cheaper than broken bones and blown knees), and ask how I kept it in such good shape.
The funny thing is that now folks see that canoe (retired from ww use last year when I decided that new canoes were cheaper than broken bones and blown knees), and ask how I kept it in such good shape.