Compare Probe 12II, and Viper 11 & 12

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:44 pm

I need some help from you guys that are familiar with these boats. I'm a Intermediate boater that has been paddling a "Y" C-boat and a Blue Hole Sequel for several years. I'm looking for something that is faster, and something dryer than the Sequel. I'm hoping that one of the 3 boats I've listed will do the job. I am aware of the "edge"!
I appreciate all opinions and comments.
Thanks,
Ol' Geezer

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:10 pm

If you are aware of the edge and you like the edge - go Viper! Haven't paddled the 11 much, but the consensus is that it is a little less edgy but has the associated virtues/flaws of being shorter. The 12 is fast - I've paddled the heck out of one for 10 years or so, on and off, and love it.

It's always fun to see a kayaker's eyes bug our when I drop that boat into an itty bitty eddy that they are just so sure a canoe can't make...

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:26 pm

Hey, ya "old geezer"! So you wanna switch to a different boat? Between your two choices and your style of paddling, I would think the Probe 12II would be your top pick, and only because it is more forgiving with its edges (chines) than the Viper.

Personally, I prefer the Viper--more performance with as much dryness as the Probe. I borrowed Dave Millican's Viper (12?) and paddled it down the James (Dries section, Second Break and Southside) around 11 feet several years ago and I remember how fun the boat was. For me, the chines never gave me a problem, though I remember rolling the boat one time below the Dries and I think it was because I flipped while surfing

.

If you are able to get hold of Dave, ask him if he still has the Viper and if you can take it for a test ride. He has several boats and has always been generous in lending them out to us fellow single bladers

.

Sorry I missed your "Chilly-Chilli" paddle trip this year. It's just not the same when you cannot walk 100 yards out into the river on the ice before you get to moving water

. Maybe you could post that trip here so I can hear how it went (any misadventures?) and the other cboaters can learn of your trip.

Take care,
KNeal (Neal)

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:58 pm

Hi Ol'Geezer,

I've got to agree with the above postings that the Probe 12II will be the most similar to what you are used to, but then again the Viper is way more fun!

I had a Viper 11 for a couple of years and it is the only boat I've ever owned that I have later regretted selling. For my money, it is one of Frankie Hubbard's best designs. I really preferred mine to an Ocoee.

If you can get your hands on a Viper 12, try ripping off the vinyl gunnels and putting on wood. The hull shape changes a lot and I think you'll have one of the sweetest, fastest best looking boats on the river.

Martyn

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:43 pm

Jim- I have a Viper 12 that you are more than welcome to borrow any time you want- It sits quietly under my house with little to no action- any boating that I do occurs in the Atom- I keep the Viper as a backup boat, and also for friends to use who want to try out whitewater- if they can paddle that the first time they have promise!

Give me a call if you want to use it- anytime!

Brendan

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:43 pm

Aha! Brendan, you've been holding out on me

! Had I known you had a Viper hidden in/under your house, I would have been a more frequent visitor

!

I am still aiming at going up to Ithaca to get the decked Viper in early April (with the hopes that the Falls Creek slalom race will be held then). Definitely count on getting in that thing after I get it back to Richmond and outfitted comfortably.

By the way, what is the word on you and Bob coming back up to the Spring Armada this year? It seems that half of your adventures occur on the drive to and from the NB as the other half of the adventure occurs with the group.

. Hope y'all can make it!

KNeal

Judd · Post by **Judd** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:06 pm

I had a viper 11 and loved it too. (I think i'm actually the guy who bought it from martyn

If possible, demo the viper and probe. They are going to paddle radically differently. If you aren't used to hard chined edgy boats, take the viper out a couple times to get a feel for it. At first, those chines will be your worse enemy, but once you get used to them, they'll be your best friend!

Judd

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:24 pm

Hey Judd,

I'm pretty sure it was my Viper you bought. At least I know it went to a good home !

Martyn

nathan · Post by **nathan** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:23 pm

I have paddled both the Viper 12 and the Probe 12.

The Viper 12 is an all round great boat. Its fast, good turning ability, surfing, etc. Its a little edgy but if you get used to it, its as stable as other boats. The primary stability doesn't seem to be there but the secondary is great. Once you gett comfortable with this boat, you won't want to part with it.

The Probe 12 is another great design. Its stability is bomber. I feel invincible in this boat. Its gotta be the hardest boat to turn over because the its wide and that means the stability is great. Its fast, turns well, and surfs good. Its a better beginner/intermediate boat than the Viper but its a good one too. I would also recommend this to you as well.

However, once you get used to the Viper you may not want to try the Probe. I liked the Probe but preferred a little more edge to it so the Viper is my personal choice. Either way, find someone with these boats and try 'em. You will like 'em both. The rest is up to you.

River Rogue · Post by **River Rogue** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:06 pm

Hello Ol' Geezer,

Personally, I think the Viper is the way to go. I am not sure of your size or abilities, but the Viper 12 is inherently more stable (than the Viper 11) due to its length and has a little softer chines. Both are obviously going to be more edgy than the Probe 12II.
My first boat was a Probe 12II and I loved it....to start with. I have recently switched to a Z for a C-boat. But if I hadn't I would have gone to a much more aggressive openboat. The Probe 12II is very forgiving, yet extremely maneuverable for the Probe series. I could slam it into just about any-sized eddy that my butt-boater friends tried to taunt me with, and it was a barge on big water.

I think it may be little drier than the Viper 11 (or maybe my lines are drier than my friends?

) and definitely faster. However, you don't have the benefit of that delicious edge.
I got bored with the Probe 12II simply because of where I want to go and how quickly I want my boat to respond. The edge on the Viper will give you that instant gratification once you learn how to use it. I think for class IV and up, the Viper is the only option.

That's my 2 cents! Have fun whichever you choose. They all are great boats.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:50 pm

I wonder if all three of those boats (Probe 12, Probe12II, Viper 12) come off of different molds or if two of them come off the same mold but the widths are different... For instance, I pulled the gunwales in on my Viper 12 by shortening the thwarts; I think it is a little edgier and faster. If I had pushed them out, would I have a Probe 12II? Or is the Probe 12II a "tucked in" Probe 12? I'd think having separate molds for similar boats might be expensive.

Just thinking...

River Rogue · Post by **River Rogue** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:34 pm

Oddly enough, all three boats (Probe 12, Probe 12II, and the Viper 12) are three different lengths. They are 12’8”, 12’2” and 12’6” respectively.

I also think that you can make a boat more edgy if your bring the thwarts in.

That may be an option…get the Probe 12II and if it is not edgy enough, shorten the thwarts.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:25 pm

Has anyone here ever seen an ABS boat mold? I wonder if it is something that can be adjusted... Put an extra foot in the middle of the 11 mold to make a 12... Add an inch of width to a Viper to make a Probe II... Maybe I'll pick my next Mohawk at the factory and get the skinny on the process...

Kalifornia_Kid · Post by **Kalifornia_Kid** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:16 am

Hey Old Geezer, Kalifornia Kid here.
If you're looking for fast and dry, try an Outrage or an Outrage X. They're big out here on the west coast. The Outrage is drier than the Viper, and just as fast. I paddle an Outrage X (six five two twenty) and I can leave the Vipers in the dust. Also, you have the performace, but the edges aren't as harsh.
Good Luck

Kalifornia Kid

Steward R · Post by **Steward R** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:57 pm

Admittedly I haven't paddled the Viper, but what about an Ocoee.

As the previous post stated the Outrage is a nice fast boat, but I like the hard edges of the Ocoee better.

Quick fun boat thats stays dry and easy to roll when you do make a mistake.

Another option is the Esquif Zoom. I paddled one for a day last season and it would be my second choice behind the Ocoee.

Paddle many boats before deciding.

C-Forum

Compare Probe 12II, and Viper 11 & 12

Compare Probe 12II, and Viper 11 & 12

the edge

Hi, Jim!

Viper12

Hmmm

Viper v. Probe 12II

different molds?

Lengths

anyone ever see an ABS boat mold?

Other boat to try