More paddle questions...

[Roger]

I have another question relating to paddles. But first, thanks to the folks who have responded to my previous posts about paddles, rolling, ect... I appreciate all information I can get since there isn't anyone around here who c-1's.

So, I've asked about lengths... Now, I'm curious about blade shapes. What I'm basically looking for is a blade that would best be suited for my use.

I have yet to roll a c-1. I have my session plus converted (For the most part). I am for the time being planning on sticking to class 2 at the most until I am completely comfortable with the roll. However, I would like to be able to get a paddle that would be good to use for a couple of years. My main question today is, should my blade be straight, curved, or spooned??? Which one would be the easiest to roll? Which kind would be good for surfing? Which would be good for general river running? Whitewater? Would straight edge (bottom of the blade) or curved edge be better?

Basically, I plan on getting started in a pool, and generally progress upwards.. and I plan on surfing every now and then. I do want something that will not be too difficult to roll with.

Right now, my best option for getting a paddle quick would be from werner. I'm thinking about getting the Bandit (composite one) or the Nantahala, but feel the bandit may be a better one in the long run... also, since I'm in the job search mode, and need to conserve my cash somewhat, it needs to be cheap... meaning, no 250 dollar sticks ect...

Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone...
Thanks a bunch,
Roger

[Judd]

I think you'd be happiest short term and long term with a blade design along the lines of the bandit. The bandit is a great paddle, and you'll probably love it. There are a couple other paddles which are pretty similar to it as well.

Aquabound makes a very similar shaped blade. (Edge C1 i think). It is also a nice paddle, costs less, but not nearly as durable as many other blades. If the class II water you are sticking with is shallow and rocky, I wouldnt' recommend an aquabound

I use a galasport demon, it's another very similar shape, very durable, very flexible, and pricier than a bandit.

You could also just pick up a $20 aluminum cheapy from just about any place. I think you can even get them at walmart. I doubt you'll notice a difference in the pool with it, and might let you put off the purchase of a real paddle until you get a chance to demo some other c1 blades. If there isn't anyone nearby who paddles c1, that's even more reason to come to the spring armada!!!

Judd

[Martyn]

I'd agree with Judd about the Werner Bandit. It's a great paddle. I have three, in varying stages of having the blade worn away.

Andy Convery makes really nice paddles (I think his company is called Echo paddles)

I would stay away from the Aquabound, they are a bit cheaper but they have earned their nick-name as the "Aqua-Snap". Similarly, I'd stay away from the cheapo $20 paddles, typically they have too much flex and not enough bite so paddling with one of them would be really frustrating.

While I do like the Bandit, a spoon blade is slightly harder to roll than a flat blade. I really prefer the spoon blade, but its kind of an individual decision.

Martyn

[the great gonzo]

I disagree with Martyn and Judd on wether the Werner Bandit and the Acquabound Edge C1 paddles.

I use a 60" Werner in my Prelude OC1 and a 56' Acquabound Edge Carbon C1 when paddling C1. The usage in therms of time end river characteristic is very similar.

In my opinion the Acquabound is superior to the Werner Bandit in terms of durability, especially if you paddle in shallow and rocky water.
I had already have the T-grip of my Werner come apart after 3 month, and after one season the blade is badly worn and chipped. Werner should really use a rope type edge guard on their paddle blades.
The Aquabound has only a fraction of the wear of the Werner.
The only drawback I noticed so far is that the AB has more blade flex than the Werner, and that the Werner shaft (oval) has a nicer shape than the AB (round).
I am not sure if I would buy another Werner, but I would definitely buy Acquabound again.

I have to agree however with Martyn that the Echo paddles are really sweet, I tried Kalin's paddles last fall and liked them a lot.
Maybe later this year...

martin

[roger]

I noticed a few of you were mentioning shallow rocky rivers. I'm in Oregon, and most of the rivers I would be doing the c-1 in are higher volume, deep. A lot of the whitewater I will be running will be more along the lines of "big water" rather than "steep".
I'm looking more along the lines of performance rather than durability.

Thanks for the great responses...hope to hear more...
Thanks,
roger

[Judd]

I actually agree with martin about the aquabound wearing factor. aquabound paddles really don't look like they are wearing down at all. But they do break! I've broken 2 so far. The story I've heard is that because it is injected molded carbon, it is quite wear resistant, but if you hit it the right way and get a little crack in it, it creates a weak spot which will eventually snap on you.

werner stuff wears funny, little bits chip off, and it gets very noticeable surface (and sometimes deep) scratches, but in my experience, it doesn't weaken the overall integrity of the blade.

my galasport on the other hand, (I bought used, mark scriver had it before, and god knows what tortures he put it through) I put a lot of days on it this year, it wears very very evenly, and is super strong and light. It's much more flexible than any paddle i have ever used, and that took a lot of getting used to, but I love it now. When this one wears out, I'll probably get another, even though I have 3-4 other paddles in my 'quiver' already.

Judd

[Tim]

Here is two bits more.
I have broken 4 Aquabound C1 edge paddles, yes I am a slow learner, only one of those I thought I was being unusually hard on it. They fixem if you send them back. The blades have a lot of flex and the large spine on the back is bothersome for C1. I agree Werner are good, the top of the line Gala Sport are great, but 4 of us bought there fiberglass ones, still expensive, the shaft snapped on two of then just rolling in the eddy!! Because of poor customer service I refuse to buy another Gala Sport! Echo Paddles, Very nice. Currently I have a wood core custom blade on a Aquabound carbon shaft. It is Ok. Unfortunatly good ones cost alot and they all wear out too soon
CUthere
Tim

[yarnellboat]

Lightning paddles haven't come into the discussion, but perhaps just as well - I'm getting lousy customer service from them and will look to somebody else next time.

[eddyhops]

The curved blade in lieu of the squared, or straight bottom blade, feels more comfortable in the water, and feels smoother when working control at the T-grip. The reason, of course, is less resistance on the blade.

What feels good may not be best. The resistance is necessary for more immediate control. The more resistance one can find on the blade in favor of the motion desired is a good thing, in my opinion.

As well, the slight curve of a spoon blade gives the same in forward motion... feels as if it bites the water better. Strangely, as far as rolls, surfing, or low braces are concerned, I don't notice any difference.

As far as brands... Mitchell paddles

http://www.mitchellpaddles.com/

is hard to beat. Never broken one, damaged many... and it took 1-2 years to damage (I'm VERY hard on gear). Sent my first wood slalom spoon-blade (from them) back to them to repair the blade, after 2 years of use, and ordered a carbon blade paddle... they repaired it & sent it back for 40$ above the new paddle, including shipping. Sent the same paddle back about 18 months later for the same repair... $30, including shipping. 2 years later ordered a carbon shaft/carbon blade & sent the same old one in, $35 above price of the new paddle... including shipping. I decided to retire that wood and order a brand new wood... that was last summer, and it will be a while before it needs repair... the carbon blade needs a little work... I'll be sending it soon.

I ordered the wrong t-grip for the carbon, called them, they sent me out a new one that week... no charge.

Great people, great paddle.

JD

[CosmikDebris]

If you get a Bandit, DON'T get the orange fiberglass one. They break easily. I don't know anything about Aquabound other than they're cheap. Mitchells are good if you aren't scraping around on rocks a lot. They're expensive though. I think the new Fluid Technology paddles look pretty good. Bernie on this board probably has some more info on them.
Lightning's are pretty solid to I believe, but only the T grip floats and they're a little on the heavy side. The Fluid's are made by the same guy that used to build the Lightnings I believe.
Will

[Bernie]

paddles have been my favorite for seven years. I have used other manufacturers designs with limited satisfaction, but the Lightning / Fluid Tech. seems to be the best for all around paddling.
The Lightning has a little more flex due to the use of S-glass blade / fiber glass shaft and the Fl. Tech. is a little stiffer due to the carbon/glass blade and fiber glass or carbon shaft.

I believe the disgruntled paddler is probably trying to order a paddle as opposed to a warranty issue. Lee is a little slow at getting them out but I have never had a warranty issue with this company. If you work through a dealer you will have much more leverage at getting issues resolved with any manufacturer.
Good luck!

[roger]

What are the specifics on the werner bandits breaking easily? Everyone has something to say about every paddle, which is good. I know paddles break, I see them all the time k1'ng, so it would help to know what the common problem is with them.

Thanks a bunch for all the great replies...

Roger

[the great gonzo]

Roger,

My Werner Bandit has not broken yet, but I think they (or at least mine did) have 2 flaws:

1) the blade wears away in a rather alarming rate. at the bottom it just wears, and on the sides it kinda chips away. It should, in my opinion, have a kevlar rope or something similar as edge protection. I have seen other Werner C1 paddles wear fast, so it seems to be a general problem. I will probably not buy another Werner paddle unless they add some sort of edge protection.

2) the T-grip of my paddle came apart, due to poor glueing of the dowel to the shaft, while I attempted to thread the needle in McKoy's on the Ottawa , leading to me getting soundly thrashed and having a rather lengthy swim . Needless tosay, I was not impresses. I have since fixed it myself, using epoxy and a big wood screw, making sure it won't come apart again. I have not heard of this happening to anyone else, so it may just have been a fluke.

martin

[Alden]

I would second the good opinion of Lightning Paddles. I just got a used one, and it is an excellent mix of durability and fairly light weight. I think it might be a little tough to find them though. You don't see them in most stores, but I'm sure you could locate one.

I don't think very highly of Werner canoe paddles. I have never used the Bandit, but my Nantahala wore through at an alarming rate and broke quickly. So did my friend's. I liked the nice big blade, and it was very light, but not durable at all. The blade was just not made out of strong stuff -- it was thin and it could chip away really easily. Heck, I was just watching one of the "Paddlesnake" videos and noticed that some guy's Nanatahala broke in the same spot mine did!

The Werner kayak paddles seem to hold up well though. And it sounds like people like the Bandit. Maybe it was just that one type of paddle?

My advice would be: if you can find something used from one of your pals that would be the way to go. It's always nice to start out with relatively bad (and cheap!) equipment and then reward yourself with better stuff as you get better!
Alden

[NZMatt]

I really like the Echo paddles I've tried....my wife just got one and we played with it in the pool last night. It was super sweet! Andy will stand behind them too. www.echopaddles.com

I've also used Mitchell's a lot and they're rock solid. I've beat mine for the last 3 years and it's still going strong.

I guess I just like wood paddles!

Matt