Werner Bandit

jcsieck · Post by **jcsieck** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:03 am

Has any one had any problem with the T-grip breaking on the werner bandit. I have broken 3 on two different paddles in the last few months. Werner tells me they do not have a problem but it keeps happening to me. The last replacement grip lasted about 2 weeks.
Any coments?

Thanks
Joe

liskahon · Post by **liskahon** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:24 pm

yeah when the weather gets hot the glue in the t grip melts. I fixed the one I was using in Uganda with epoxide.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:50 pm

Do you mean the grip coming unglued? That's down to your indivdual retailer/you as the paddles come uncut.

Certain types of araldite go soft in hot weather, I've used west system; and have experienced no problems in just shy of four years of abuse.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:54 pm

I once missed a critical roll when my Norse paddle grip came loose and wandered to the wrong angle. After that, I would not only glue the grip, but I ran a pop rivet through on one side so the grip could not turn.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:08 pm

I'm curious too of whether you are talking of the grip coming off, or breaking all together....

jcsieck · Post by **jcsieck** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:16 pm

The grip breaks at the narrowest point. It starts with a crack on the spoon side of the paddle and continues to break in two pieces.

I have never had a problem with the grip coming loose , just snapping off.

Thanks
Joe

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:19 pm

Interesting - your paddling technique must lend itself to transmitting a lot of torque though the end of the grip - or perhaps there is something odd with the paddle shaft itself that is transmitting extra force to just that one spot.

As I haven't looked at a Werner in a while, does the grip still slide inside the shaft, or does it go outside the shaft?

jcsieck · Post by **jcsieck** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:28 pm

The grip inserts into the shaft.

jcsieck · Post by **jcsieck** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:56 pm

Thanks for the imput.
It must be something I am doing to cause the problem.

Thanks
Joe

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:51 am

Either that, or something odd with the shaft you are inserting the grip in to, such that the force is not equal all around.

If you ever figure it out, please let us know - if more than one grip has broken, it certainly is odd...

mahyongg · Post by **mahyongg** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:34 pm

I dont know how the grips are (injection) molded but if they are fairly thick, you could try to reduce stress at the point of (usual) failure by rounding out/beveling the corner.
Or add some G-Flex Epoxy bevel right there.
Werner should change that (its easy for it probably only requires removing stuff from existing injection-molding tooling) and I would recommend that to them if I were you - send the broken grips to them if you have 'em.
They should be thankful.. and do better dev/engineering/testing on their T-grips but hey, thats the whole outdoor industry I'm talking to, innit guys? Most testing seems too expensive if not safety-critical like climbing gear, but in my eyes a paddle grip is very much just that - if it fails in a critical traverse upstream a syphon on a class V, what then?

Btw. there is a very simple method to construct butt connections derived from the way trees grow, with not even a computer needed to draw them. A lot of High-stress failure is caused by the fact that most engineering CAD programs readily offer circle-shaped rounding of inside corners, which are prone to cause stress peaks. See more here (Werner, thats you I'm talking to! Pls. request my address to send a free paddle as thank you present by PM).

Check this PDF, its German only but the pictures might have you get an idea.. the Author Prof. Claus Mattheck is an interesting figure.
http://www.imf2.kit.edu/img/Zugdreiecke.pdf

Happy paddling!
Jan

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:23 pm

If werner were to change the grip shape to widen the neck it would become pointless them making their own ones at all (and they are by far the best shape of t-grip I've come across).

mahyongg · Post by **mahyongg** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:50 pm

You are right, but I'm not talking about necessarily widening the neck though, just small changes to the transition curve between neck and grip itself..
I have made slim-necked paddle grips myself (still in use unbroken, right yarnellboats?). The change I suggest that strengthens the transition does not have to make it larger, just change the shape and get loads more strength in comparison to a simple rounded-off transition (or direct 90° angle, god-forbid!). Making the transition a little larger would still exaggerate that, just not so much that you'd get a problem to squeeze it between your fingers ;D

Cheers,

Jan

mahyongg · Post by **mahyongg** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:56 pm

May I add, ABS is not the toughest of materials.. making one from Nylon reinforced with Carbon Fibres or so (every plastic car parts manufacturer can do that.. some paddle companies buy their parts there too: http://www.mergner-paddel.de/canadier_intro.htm) would probably get over the problem altogether without altering the shape.

Who else just thought about a royalex-like layup using carbon reinforced nylon as an outer layer.. uh-oh, that boat could probably be the last you bought.. hopefully too because it would be soo expensive ;D

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:00 pm

has anyone had any luck changing the grips on the bandit i would like to put a dowel style grip on a bandit but not sure what the best way to go about it would be. Any thoughts?

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