c1 roll critique part two

[Smurfwarrior]

Ok, here is a short clip of me rolling my Orbit Fish. Can you C1 types tell me if I'm doing it wrong... am I overdoing the fainting goat? Thanks for the advise!

http://s794.photobucket.com/albums/yy22 ... olling.mp4

[golder]

are you rolling up on the power face of your paddle? it was hard to tell, but it seemed that way to me....

i can't speak for the rest of the world, but i roll up on my non-power face (think low brace). i think that will simplify things a bit for you.

good luck.

[davel]

yep, you're basically putting all your effort into your paddle. Same deal as a kayak, the hip snap rotates your boat to an upright position and your resistance of your paddle allows you to lift your body upright.

look at the roll at :16 and right after that, you're basically trying to pull the body and the kayak upright as a unit. Try slowing down and see how far you can get the boat upright with your body still in the water. being higher than you would in a kayak, you can get the boat rotated upright much further. this lets your boats primary/sec stability to do the work instead of muscling the whole thing and having it be choppy.

do you use thigh straps or a bulkhead? ive always found the bulkhead didnt cut it for me.

[Smurfwarrior]

I'm using the power face on the sweep back then switching to low brace for the sweep forward. I'm using thigh straps an today (when I filmed this) I was experementing with a inch higher seat. Than made my knees loose for some reason, no matter how tight I had the straps. The last roll on the vid pretty much sums up my concern, as I'm driving down the bow so much.

So, slow down, roll the boat more first before the forward sweep. I'll give that a try. Thanks!

[Mike W.]

The last roll on the vid pretty much sums up my concern, as I'm driving down the bow so much.

1 - Keep your head down.

2 - Coming up in a bow stall is cool when you want to, but I don't always want to. I had that problem w/ my first short boat. Try starting the low-brace w/ the paddle further back (think 45 degree angle to the stern rather than 90 degrees to the boat).

3 - Try flipping w/ the non-power face of the paddle to the deck of the boat. This way you don't have to flip the paddle when you swing out as it's already in the low-brace position. It cuts out a step in the roll so you can come up faster.

4 - Keep your head down.

[PAC]

Just like with OC try to bring the boat up under you with the hips and of course what Mike said and keep at it! With time I figure out my zone with each since I find I roll a little different in each one based on its design...
But remember any roll to O2 is a good roll! So you have a good roll now!
One other item - slow down the process (when in flatwater practicing) and try to see if getting the paddle blade up higher (out of the water if possible) at the start of the roll helps.. This will get you hands lower, taking some stress off your shoulders. It also lets the paddle skim the surface creating more tension on the blade surface and creating a more solid purchase for your hips to engage the paddle face. I hope that makes sense! Good luck!

[yarnellboat]

Yeah, I think if you can slow down and separate things a bit more, get the boat rolling more with you legs & hips, then you won't still be needing so much energy so late in the roll, which is sinking your bow.

Instead of rolling your boat with so much sweep on your low brace, try to get a bit more downward push at the start of your roll - use that little push down to right the boat, then sweep your body up, but without so much pressure on the paddle.

And as always, keep your head square to the bottom and in the water as long as possible. A tendency with relying so much on a sweeping action to roll is that you'll turn your face towards the bow. Keep your face square to the bottom.

Pat.

p.s. The bow stall issue is pretty minor and I'm sure you'll find a way to correct it - the roll looks good!

[cadster]

Your paddle is not on surface when starting the low brace portion of roll. Focus on extending your body away from the boat and think of dropping your left shoulder to face the bottom.

Try this different roll, fall over with the paddle extended in a low brace and let your shaft hand rotate to keep power face up. Roll up by reversing the shaft hand rotation without flipping the paddle. This roll isn’t started with a power face down sweep.

If your timing is off, flipping the paddle over during the roll will cause it to dive whereas that won’t happen if the paddle remains flat thru out the roll. Starting with a power face sweep isn’t helpful in rolling a C-1 like it is in an OC-1.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Now I really don't see anything wrong with your roll (though seen as you didn't do any capsises to your off side, I'm not able to say that with absolute certainty), when paddling a playboat I tend to use a C-to-C type roll, because it's very snappy, and the quicker I roll, the less likely I am to flush.

In a C1 using an all-powerface roll that comes up into a forward stroke/bow draw works just fine if the body language is right. (If the body language is wrong your arm will go right out, you'll come up on a high brace and you'll risk hyper extention of the shoulder).

One thing I suggest you learn is the back deck roll. The easiest way to learn this is by starting with throwing your weight to the off side and skimming a low brace across the surface (again on your off side) as you go under the boat, the paddle should cross over you body and start generating lift, once it's back on the onside hipsnap sharply and do a stomach crunch and hey presto you should be up and resting on a low brace! Once you do that enough you'll be able to do it from being already on the back deck when you cock up a move and fall in.

The bloke in the blue fun at 00:55 in this video is a good example of the back deck roll.

[Smurfwarrior]

Hey Cricket,
My last roll was an offside capsize in the vid. Thanks for the advise, and I'll have to try the back deck roll. I can do those without problem, on flat and in a feature, in a K1... so it should make it easier to translate into C1 for me, I think.
I'll try out the suggestions and see how that works. Thanks!

[TheKrikkitWars]

I'll try out the suggestions and see how that works. Thanks!

About the Bow submerging as you come up, that's not an issue, it's an inticator that your saddle is placed about right...
As long as you ensure you continue the good habit of getting your weight neutral again the second the boat comes up past the point of no return, that way the bow is up before the current can take it, which helps a lot in boily water.

[Smurfwarrior]

Well, I've been practicing a bit using the tips you guys were giving me... hopefully I've improved some. To me if feels if I have. Been working on getting rid of the sweep and facing the river bottom more.

Here is a roll video from today of me in my Blunt. (My trim is off, need to move the seat forward)

http://www.vimeo.com/15178251

[oopsiflipped]

It looks better than your first clip, but to me it still looks like you are rolling a canoe - setting up forward, sweeping back on the power face, flipping to the back face, and sweeping back forward without any noticeable hip snap. Try and bring the boat back up with your body, without relying on your paddle.

[Larry Horne]

is that a bob foote roll? or a kayak roll? are you a kayaker?
like i think was said before, don't sweep out on the power face...that causes you to do the roll in two steps and s[pend too much time extended.
flip the paddle as you fall over and tuck. sweep out on the non power face and you can hip snap sooner (like while you're sweeping) and it 'll make the roll quicker and mucho smoother.

[Smurfwarrior]

Thanks for the help. I'll try the paddle thing in the sweep and try using less of it to roll. With no one around to help, this is a big help. Yeah, I was a kayaker for a bit. Trying to fight those bad habits