Eli wrote:Growing up on the Shenandoah, that was an early aspiration for me as well.
Scouting the Spout is almost as fun as running it when the park is deserted in the morning.
I experienced the complete opposite end of this spectrum of tranquility during a Race when I first ran the Fishladder.
I think Great Falls is where Mom told me she prefered to watch me on videos.
It's a great section of rapids; choose your time, take good friends and enjoy it!
Thanks for your input! This is partly an aspiration for me because I was born about 10 miles away, and my dad and I used to go up and watch people kayak down the falls. This was my first exposure to whitewater, and it left a lasting impression on me.
What exactly is the Fishladder? It is the section running under the island bridge right? How difficult is that section compared to the other lines?
Creeker wrote:Sam thanks for you PM yesterday. It seems you have a level head about what you're looking to do with this info down the line. I switched back to the public forum because I'd prefer some experienced OC1 eyes to tune anything that may need it. I first want to point out that anything I say in the way of dry lines are my best evaluation based on what I have seen not actually done.
I like Alden's idea of getting a real feeling first descent....it appeals to me too, but unless you are a VERY seasoned teenager you may want some info on this ahead of time. Certainly Great Falls is a rapid for a stout class 5 team approach and guys skilled in swiftwater rescue. If you haven't nailed down many class 5's you probably want to just work it till you have that experience. When I'm there the power of that rapid hits me like any 5.2. If you don't feel the love you can just walk the whole shooting match on the long flake rock dividing the Virginia lines and the middle lines. If you need it, its a very pleasant portage.
You said canoe so I'm assuming OC-1. That is a tall order to keep that dry. You can take the teeth out of the middle by walking Grace Under Pressure and putting in at a great eddy just below...then it is much more likely to get to the correct index finger spout nearly empty. There is a significant eddy or slack water, at favorable flows, just above the last drop in the middle line. You can pump out your boat there if you can get in there. Most everyone does stop there to enjoy the falls or just chill.
I totally think any one move in the middle is doable relatively dry at favorable levels by the best open boaters. You asked me how many places if you swim are life threatening. Great question.... The answer is most anywhere is lethal. Most of the water is dropping into rock that will bust you up or entrap you. You don't even want to be in the wrong spots in your boat. From the time you enter Grace Under pressure you are committed to making a gap the size of a slalom gate in the fingers. Anything but perfection will be a scary day.
I'll share a personal experience from my first descent:
It was new years day and cold. I was wearing poggies. I was in the eddy at the base of GUP. Getting out was a real challenge as you have to clear around a boulder on the strong eddy line. I made it out but I was gonna hip check on the boulder. I pulled my hand out of the poggie to palm the rock in a stiff arm. I helped the boat to quickly get into fast current.
Even though I had taken pictures for an hour from the flake looking upstream it didn't help me at all from the boaters perspective. I had scouted from the upstream perspective but in the end I felt I should have done this more extensively,laying out all the "what if" lines a little more clearly in my mind.
So I pealed out of the Grace eddy with a hand out of the poggie from the stiff arm. I didn't drop my attention and passed the current leading to the Pinky finger slot. Rethinking about not losing my way and the virtue of having my hand back in the warm poggie I quickly took 2 seconds doing that. In that 2 seconds I lost my perspective on the slot I wanted. I delayed the needed move and it was a close call on getting on water headed to the index finger. There is a lot to look at up there. Even just this little bobble, forget a roll or a swim nearly caused a full on pressure moment for me
Keep in mind too that the favorable line down the ledges to the index finger 20 ft boof leads directly adjacent to Subway.
The water at the bottom of the index finger shockingly caused everyone in my group to carp out a crumy roll. the level that day was a very reasonable 3.6 ft
There is so much water in the middle going to subway, and the pinny/piton 5.2 right next to it. The pinky finger never looked good to me either in a kayak it didn't look like I'd escape the hole.
I'm sort of curious what others would prefer for the last 20 footer on the middle line. Alden, Is the index finger the preferred line for OB too?....how about the shallow boof just to the river right of the index finger?
Personally just being there is amazing. I always say that it's better to leave a rapid, a boof, a line undone for the next trip just to look forward to your next run. I think it's a positive spin on portaging vs feeling like a chump cause you were the only one that didn't run the goods.
remember if you can't roll 100% you have to pass on GF.
Don't run it without a guide and I suggest you scout it well enough that you likely can boat it without the guide in the first place. Like alden said scout it significantly from shore. A guide led 2 boaters by accident into subway a while back they all didn't survive.
Thank you for such a comprehensive answer, I really appreciate it. I am certainly no where near the level required at this time, as I have not had the opportunity to boat too much and am currently only boating class IV water. Although I would love to do this as soon as I think that I am ready, I will certainly not rush it and will have boated many class V's of less consequence before a run on GFs.
I realize that all three lines are very serious and difficult, but from my viewing and reading about the three, I think I would definitely like to aspire to paddle the VA line first. Regardless of difficulty, this side seems much less scary to me. The pool-drop nature of it is somewhat reassuring, and it seems like if you mess up the hardest drop (the Spout), that it is one of the few places on that river that wouldn't be too consequential to swim (from the bottom of the Spout, of course). On the other hand, if you mess up the hardest drop on the Center Line, then you are done for. The Maryland side also seems more scary just because of those nasty holes. Is this analysis correct?
I think you're right about Virginia side being a good place to start. Either there or low (below 2.7) Maryland side. I'm not actually sure if anyone has ever open boated the Center Lines. In fact, I've never actually seen anyone open boat any line on the Falls. A lot of folks C-1 the Falls (including myself). The Fishladder I don't quite consider part of "The Falls," but it's fairly similar in difficulty. You're correct about the location.
The two drops I consider the hardest and most dangerous on the commonly run lines, at normal levels, are Grace Under Pressure on the Center Lines, and Horseshoe on the MD Lines. At lower flows, making the move at Horseshoe isn't too bad though. Over on the Virginia side, the hole at the base of the Spout starts to get bad over 3.1, and starts to get too low around 2.85. My first falls run was around 2.9 on the VA Lines (I think that's a good place to start).
What you see is pretty much what you get with the VA side, with one exception: there is a rock sticking out from behind the curtain about 3/4 of the way down the Spout. At lower flows (below 2.9), some folks have banged their sterns (and even an elbow) on it. Not a major hazard, but something to keep in mind.
so alden what do you think about the middle line's 20 ft boof. think maybe a OB1 might fly better to the river right side,( just outside) of the index finger AKA shallow boof or middle finger? cause you know I'm just itching to take the ME there
I ran the Middle Finger once at 3.8 and it was freakin awesome. It was a HUGE boof -- I was amazed that I didn't: A) actually land against the cliff face 100 yards away at O-Deck, or B) immediately break my back on landing. Needless to say, moves like that are never caught on video . . .
I think that could be a great open boat line at higher flows, but the lip does get pretty scrappy below 3.8. And I don't think I'll be finding myself out there in an open boat at 3.8 anytime soon! (That's just me.)
I do think the Index Finger would go in an open boat. It would be pretty awkward, and you'd probably get wet at the bottom, but then again if anyone's going to be running Center Lines in an open boat, he or she is going to be wanting it pretty bad!
yeah, I thought it would be easy to fly an Amazing boof there. I just hesitate coming out of the blocks commenting such. Glad you posted and stomped that FullGnarlz line.
