Hi Cboats folks
I have a question for you and would greatly appreciate the time it will take for you to express your opinion.
Hypothetically... if there were short instructional canoeing videos about 2 to 4 minutes long, available on the web. How would you prefer to view them.
Thanks
Paul
opinions on viewing short canoeing videos wanted
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
opinions on viewing short canoeing videos wanted
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Sir Adam
- CBoats.net Staff
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Just to muddy the waters:)
If it were 15-20 min, happy to pay a few bucks for it if it's good. 2-4 min seems short to pay upfront for with no idea if it would be helpful to me or not... so my vote would change depending on the length. I voted as appropriate for the length stated.
I wouldn't mind advertisements, even in paid for movies, if they were short and from folks like Esquif, Echo, Werner, etc... - PADDLING companies in other words.
I would be interested in a paid subscription of sorts once I had an idea of the content - iTunes, or a website as you suggested are good examples.
I think as a whole we boaters are too cheap for our own good a lot of the time... but that's the mentality we have, and it is difficult to "sell" too!
If it were 15-20 min, happy to pay a few bucks for it if it's good. 2-4 min seems short to pay upfront for with no idea if it would be helpful to me or not... so my vote would change depending on the length. I voted as appropriate for the length stated.
I wouldn't mind advertisements, even in paid for movies, if they were short and from folks like Esquif, Echo, Werner, etc... - PADDLING companies in other words.
I would be interested in a paid subscription of sorts once I had an idea of the content - iTunes, or a website as you suggested are good examples.
I think as a whole we boaters are too cheap for our own good a lot of the time... but that's the mentality we have, and it is difficult to "sell" too!
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
Ditto to Adams comments
I would pay more for more time. Hate to expose the credit card number, cost to you for $2
I agree about paying for short video time. With that said, paying a monthly/yearly fee to access the website and view what's available looks like the best choice to me. Not a big fan of youtube, though it carries the bulk of the video I look for on the internet (mostly track and field stuff). I would like to be able to download and view instructional stuff in slow-motion.
Curious as to the video you want to show.
Curious as to the video you want to show.
C-boats Moderator
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
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Yukon
- Yukan Canoe
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Would really depend on the video. If it was high quality and very useful,with lots of different angles and discussed some of the subitles of a given technique then it would be worth some coin for sure.
Especially if you had some tandem videos- there is a real shortage of high quality tandem video out there.
And if I could use as a teaching tool would also make it more appealing.
I dont mind advertising if it is relevant advertising, and I would imagine having Advertsing would make the project much more feasible. Dont know if there would be a big enough volume of open boaters to pay for videos to make it worth while. I am sure a 3-4 minute video is at least a days work if not 2 or 3. That is a lot of $2 downloads.
I did like your video analysis concept for personal coaching. Maybe another concept on this would be post a video of a paddler doing a move and having others analysis is, share what each is seeing and then have you comment. I would pay for that. I have learned lots of analysing video of students. Slow motion sure tells u lot.
Always looking for tools to help me become a better instructor.
Especially if you had some tandem videos- there is a real shortage of high quality tandem video out there.
And if I could use as a teaching tool would also make it more appealing.
I dont mind advertising if it is relevant advertising, and I would imagine having Advertsing would make the project much more feasible. Dont know if there would be a big enough volume of open boaters to pay for videos to make it worth while. I am sure a 3-4 minute video is at least a days work if not 2 or 3. That is a lot of $2 downloads.
I did like your video analysis concept for personal coaching. Maybe another concept on this would be post a video of a paddler doing a move and having others analysis is, share what each is seeing and then have you comment. I would pay for that. I have learned lots of analysing video of students. Slow motion sure tells u lot.
Always looking for tools to help me become a better instructor.
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Al Donaldson
- Pain Boater
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:42 pm
- Location: Cedar Falls, IA
Short Videos
Paul:
As evidenced by the replies so far, I think that you'll not get good numbers unless you include at least one more possible answer to the poll, as there are categories of possible answers that you've left out. A couple of thoughts:
Since nobody has indicated that they care for paying for videos if they cannot see the quality, some kind of "preview" indicator would be useful.
And, of course, "None of the above" should probably be listed.
Sorry to be a nit-picker.
al
As evidenced by the replies so far, I think that you'll not get good numbers unless you include at least one more possible answer to the poll, as there are categories of possible answers that you've left out. A couple of thoughts:
Since nobody has indicated that they care for paying for videos if they cannot see the quality, some kind of "preview" indicator would be useful.
And, of course, "None of the above" should probably be listed.
Sorry to be a nit-picker.
al
Al Donaldson
1920 Belle Avenue
Cedar Falls, IA
50613
(319) 277-3194
1920 Belle Avenue
Cedar Falls, IA
50613
(319) 277-3194
video poll
Hi all
Well so far this has been educational and I guess what I expected, we don't want to pay for stuff.
Al Donaldson has a good point re:having previews. To answer his comment, I would have previews available on youtube. You know: how to roll a canoe, but only preview the first half of the roll... javascript:emoticon(':D')
paul
Well so far this has been educational and I guess what I expected, we don't want to pay for stuff.
Al Donaldson has a good point re:having previews. To answer his comment, I would have previews available on youtube. You know: how to roll a canoe, but only preview the first half of the roll... javascript:emoticon(':D')
paul
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I am SO with PAC on the dislike youtube thing. The commercials are obnoxious (and I'm being polite here). I can tolerate vimeo a lot better.PAC wrote:I REALLY REALLY dislike youtube.... vimeo is better IMHO. My $.01!
C-boats Moderator
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
Hi Paul,
I was having exactly the same discussion with Kent Ford in Versam last september. He has as similar issue with his video content.
I think we should pay for a good instruction video. It costs a lot of time to shoot that video and to edit and so on. Prices should be fair though! But as long as there is nog "big-dvd-brand" involved, it should be possible to keep the prices at a level so that people still want to pay for it and the producer still gets some money out of it.
I see previews with or without promotion, as a way of promoting your dvd. That's how you come out, show the world that there is some interesting stuff out there. So yes, short previews, on youtube, vimeo and other video websites.
Comon guys, we should not be picky. We all prefer paddling over shooting video and spending many computer hours editing that video (especially professional quality so it can be a full dvd, not just youtube or vimeo where -minor- shortcomings till are acceptable).
Yes, we all like it to be free, but if we are reasonable, we should realize that a fair price is the only way to go.
[EDIT]
Sorry, I was already making a dvd out of it
. Well anyhow, if you take the available instruction dvd's on the market, each section itself I think is not much longer then 5 minutes or so. So it's more or less the same.
I especially would like to pay if I could download them in a good format. Maybe that's a way of thinking about it: preview in "youtube" quality, make them available, without publicity, good quality, and pay for it?
just my $0.1
I was having exactly the same discussion with Kent Ford in Versam last september. He has as similar issue with his video content.
I think we should pay for a good instruction video. It costs a lot of time to shoot that video and to edit and so on. Prices should be fair though! But as long as there is nog "big-dvd-brand" involved, it should be possible to keep the prices at a level so that people still want to pay for it and the producer still gets some money out of it.
I see previews with or without promotion, as a way of promoting your dvd. That's how you come out, show the world that there is some interesting stuff out there. So yes, short previews, on youtube, vimeo and other video websites.
Comon guys, we should not be picky. We all prefer paddling over shooting video and spending many computer hours editing that video (especially professional quality so it can be a full dvd, not just youtube or vimeo where -minor- shortcomings till are acceptable).
Yes, we all like it to be free, but if we are reasonable, we should realize that a fair price is the only way to go.
[EDIT]
Sorry, I was already making a dvd out of it
. Well anyhow, if you take the available instruction dvd's on the market, each section itself I think is not much longer then 5 minutes or so. So it's more or less the same.I especially would like to pay if I could download them in a good format. Maybe that's a way of thinking about it: preview in "youtube" quality, make them available, without publicity, good quality, and pay for it?
just my $0.1
No ads for me. I ignore them (yes even the paddling ones - come on, who of you doesn't check out the manufacturers websites on their own anyways?) and I also doubt their efficiency.
Sponsorship, thats a different story. Although not much different in some ways, I would let sponsors in the boat in this case. Shows their support and actually helps the sport - and them. Not necessary to put a lot of effort in creative as well, sponsorship has its own, holy status that just works. Although it should not be overrated.. having lived with two outdoor company sponsorship guys, I doubt it could be much from any canoeing company..
Its probably very difficult at best to actually make any extra money - with or without sponsorship - or even fill the cost side of such a production (for canoeing..). So if a producer / paddler is willing to give a video to the community (while he/she has fun being out there and paddling) its pretty much only the additional production cost they will have to cover somehow. Would be interesting to get some of the numbers of existing videos.. hey Kent Ford, did you make any -direct-money out of your classics?
If you've ever edited a video and have been paid for it, you know that takes some time and resources as well.
I doubt it would actually pay out to produce an instruction video - in other than the form it always has: credibility, additional instruction customers, ba-zonk and steel-balls-accolades (depending on type of video). And a big general plus for the whole sport.
So, isn't this what its all about. Having fun (paddling AND taping, or should I say "card-ing" it, now) with some friends, getting credibility in the scene and maybe some additional customers if you are an instructor yourself, plus give some people the ability to learn about your sport and maybe join in that otherwise couldn't or wouldn't.
I guess some of these values would get lost behind a paywall.
The last two weeks, I have been videotaping and editing a conference in my professional field and publishing the material on vimeo, all for the greater good (and equipment rental cost covered). So I guess I should know what I'm talking about... would have been single digit K turnaround otherwise. Now, its exposure instead - with my company name in every single end title after each spot, it should be known by everybody in the field by now. Too bad we did not have time to fix our website due to the vid work..
So, its all a labour of love, isn't it?
And DVD's, whats that? C'mon, I know canoeists are seen as a little backward from the outside, but why do we have to prove it to everybody all the time? ;D
I want it in mobile format so I can take/watch it on the river/lake on my iPhone/whatnot. That, in comparison to the rest, is very easy to come by.
Cheerio,
Jan
Sponsorship, thats a different story. Although not much different in some ways, I would let sponsors in the boat in this case. Shows their support and actually helps the sport - and them. Not necessary to put a lot of effort in creative as well, sponsorship has its own, holy status that just works. Although it should not be overrated.. having lived with two outdoor company sponsorship guys, I doubt it could be much from any canoeing company..
Its probably very difficult at best to actually make any extra money - with or without sponsorship - or even fill the cost side of such a production (for canoeing..). So if a producer / paddler is willing to give a video to the community (while he/she has fun being out there and paddling) its pretty much only the additional production cost they will have to cover somehow. Would be interesting to get some of the numbers of existing videos.. hey Kent Ford, did you make any -direct-money out of your classics?
If you've ever edited a video and have been paid for it, you know that takes some time and resources as well.
I doubt it would actually pay out to produce an instruction video - in other than the form it always has: credibility, additional instruction customers, ba-zonk and steel-balls-accolades (depending on type of video). And a big general plus for the whole sport.
So, isn't this what its all about. Having fun (paddling AND taping, or should I say "card-ing" it, now) with some friends, getting credibility in the scene and maybe some additional customers if you are an instructor yourself, plus give some people the ability to learn about your sport and maybe join in that otherwise couldn't or wouldn't.
I guess some of these values would get lost behind a paywall.
The last two weeks, I have been videotaping and editing a conference in my professional field and publishing the material on vimeo, all for the greater good (and equipment rental cost covered). So I guess I should know what I'm talking about... would have been single digit K turnaround otherwise. Now, its exposure instead - with my company name in every single end title after each spot, it should be known by everybody in the field by now. Too bad we did not have time to fix our website due to the vid work..
So, its all a labour of love, isn't it?
And DVD's, whats that? C'mon, I know canoeists are seen as a little backward from the outside, but why do we have to prove it to everybody all the time? ;D
I want it in mobile format so I can take/watch it on the river/lake on my iPhone/whatnot. That, in comparison to the rest, is very easy to come by.
Cheerio,
Jan