The Re-Birth of Canoeing (plastic canoe era)

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:25 am

Dooley, I think you are right. A traditional looking canoe has more appeal to the general boating public. However, I don't know how far we can grow our sport. I'm not too worried about running out of river space in my area. Heck I haven't seen an OC or C1 in the last two years.

When I first started boating about 8 years ago, I read Mason and Scrivers' "Thrill of the Paddle". In the book there is a good overview of open canoes (now dated), but they included the Quake and Superfly, I think. At the time I REALLY thought they didn't qualify as OCs. Well, I probably have one of the few Spanish Fly's in the state of Washington and the only way I'm going to give it up is if I break it or can no longer kneel in it. Last year a kayaker I was with thought for sure that the SFly was a C1. In a way that sums up the perception folks have of bathtub boats.

As for the more traditional look, I appreciate what the L'Edge ( Craig) has done for the sport. I'm definitely looking forward to trying one. Of course out here, the only way to try a boat is to buy it. By the way, appeal of the SFly is that it can do it all (play, river run and creek). From the videos that I've seen, the L'Edge looks to have the same qualities - only drier.

I also agree with Adam - this has been a good year for new designs, but new designs will only keep coming if new boats are purchased from the manufacturers.

Craig, quit baiting us and let us know what you are up to. C1?

Pat, have you been able to try the L'Edge? Given what I said above, I'm sure the SFly doesn't interest you. However, the L'Edge looks to float a heavier person than the SFly and I know at least on person in your weight range that floats the SFly fine (Scott B.).

Marc

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:31 am

Mark, lets hit the Cascade Playpark again and I'll bring the L'Edge and Blackfly for you to try out.

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:36 am

Hey Jeff, I'd love to. How about throwing in a CABarton and South Fork run while were at it?

Marc

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:43 am

Craig Smerda wrote:

Larry Horne wrote:I agree with dooley about canoe designs but I gotta ask you guys;

Why always this talk about "grow the sport"? I think it's freakin awsome just how it is.
I don't get it. Explain it to me.
It's because he, Pat and others want to keep getting new "toys" to play with... heck... I want new "toys" too man. So... tomorrow please go out and buy a new canoe Larry... we need help fueling all of this madness.

uh huh. that's what I thought

You know I'm happy making c1s out of kayaks. Sooo, sorry Smerda, I won't be buying a new open boat any time soon. But if I were.. it would definately be red..

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:27 am

Hey PAt, 230lbs and 6 ft, Im finding the Ledge, the most adaptable to my size short boat Ive found! Im following a buddy of mine who's 50 lbs lighter and a lot more athletic in his fly and
Im holding my own just fine. Once the season breaks and Im back out on a weekly basis the walls will be broken and Ill really see what this boat can do.

pier · Post by **pier** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:25 pm

In Italy we are onlly few open boater, is very difficult to try or to see an open boat in our river, because often the open boat are very very expensive and people prefer buy a kayak, with 800-900 euro they buy a new kayak, if u want to ride an open boat with classic design of canoe( mad river esquif, or others) u must to pay 2500 euro for a boat, and often u must order with closed eyes the boat that we see on c boats or in the builder website.

I think that a traditional looking for the open boat is the right way that a good creek boat must be build in polietilene and not in royalex while I prefer a composite boat for river running (for our river I speak) >I think that the boat, expecially polietilene boats must be less expensive if the comapanies want to sell more and if they want more oc paddler in the river in the world

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:29 pm

TonyB wrote:Hey PAt, 230lbs and 6 ft, Im finding the Ledge, the most adaptable to my size short boat Ive found! Im following a buddy of mine who's 50 lbs lighter and a lot more athletic in his fly and
Im holding my own just fine....

I was wondering if you were going to chime in Tony. Myself being a 6'3, 220 pounder, I would like to get your impression of the Ledge on your Lower Gauley Run (that you guys chapped me on

) The difference I noticed between the Ocoee and the Detonator was that the Detonator just got tossed around more than I liked, so wondering if this is just a short boat in bigger water issue...

How does your nitro on the LG compare to your Ledge run down the LG?

My local rivers are the New and Gauley now, so I really want a good big water boat for a bigger guy; but can also creek well.

Thanks Tony

keez · Post by **keez** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:37 pm

Has anyone been able to cartwheel a L'Edge as yet (aside from Dooley)?
Lots of slam'n the SFly in this post, but in my humble opinion they are 2 very different boats, even if the L'Edge is based on the SFly hull.
I have more than one saw in my tool-shed.
If you want to grow the sport - buy both boats: one for play, the other for creeking.
SYOTR
Geoff

Dooleyoc-1 · Post by **Dooleyoc-1** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:09 pm

Geoff,

Good point. I still have my fly. It's a better playboat than the L'Edge. If you can afford to have multiple boats you should own both for sure (and a spark and blackfly for that matter...)

My point was not that anyone should ditch the fly I was just pointing out an observation/theory that even though the fly is a great boat it's not going to attract new people to the sport and the L'Edge will.

I don't think canoeing is ever going to be "huge" but it would be nice to grow the sport a little bit because that will mean more new designs, more new people to meet out on the river and more fun all the way around for everyone. (I want to see Esquif, BlackFly and Mohawk all do well and keep cranking out new designs)

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:22 pm

I remember my first impression of the "bath tub" boats was "why? it's too small to have any speed and if I want to play harder, I'll paddle a C-1". My initial reaction to paddling the Skeeter was - "tippy"; the Quake wouldn't roll (hung up on my offside). 5 or so years later when I tried "bath tub" boats again, I had a completely different reaction; doubtless shaped by the intervening experience - i like the Quake and own a SF. But... the funky shape sure garners a lot of odd looks and "what the heck is that?" inquiries even at this late date.

I've tried the L'Edge and it's awesome - no doubt about what it is either (especially open). Note that I'm in the upper weight range, too, though my idea of "fast" has been altered by a progression of shorter and shorter boats of one sort and another.

Bring on some more canoes that look like canoes in plastic! I, for one, wouldn't mind a diminishment of the "how to I make royalex last forever" threads...

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:16 pm

I think the more boats look like a canoe, the better off it will be for the sport.

At the end of the day, kayaks will always be cheaper, lighter, and easier to learn initially, three considerations which are tough to beat. However, if we just get out there on the river and have fun, and talk about how much fun we have paddling a canoe, the sport will grow. The more videos, the more pictures, the more cool canoeing stories that are out there, the more people will say, "Hey, that looks pretty cool. I want to give that a try."

I truly believe we are at the beginning of a Renaissance, where open boating will become more and more prevalent. Personally, I think that this is great for the sport and for my personal involvement in the sport.

bobthepainter · Post by **bobthepainter** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:18 pm

growing the sport... i feel the video, and all the U-tube stuff is what is intriguing to a lot of the new boaters coming on to the sport. you guys making new designs keep it heading down the right path. but the learning curve is huge. to make the step up from classII to classIII. it might sound silly to many of you but the truth is many want too be as good as you are, but without education your groups of wildwater paddlers will remain small. you just don't get good without going and paddling with people that can extend that knowledge . i'm a long time "lurker" but the stuff you post is priceless and this is the only site that has so many people from all parts of our industy all in one place to my knowledge. just some food for thought!

bobthepainter · Post by **bobthepainter** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:20 pm

laughing .....i like the way you think chris!

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:28 pm

bobthepainter - That's a great point. This summer I had front row tickets as one of the kayakers in my paddling group dropped the training blade and started canoeing. So plus one for the sport.

Unfortunately, a lot of the instructional clubs and groups only focus on kayaking, because it is easier to teach. I know personally of one club that not only won't instruct canoeing, they won't allow canoes on whitewater trips (and they call themselves a canoe club, go figure)

Now that I have an extra boat, I hope I can bring it along when I paddle some of the easier rivers this summer, so that if someone is interested and is willing to give it a shot, I can get him a boat and some gear and take him down an easier river. I firmly believe that it only takes one good day on the river to get hooked.

Edit: I like the way you think!

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:48 pm

The new boats are great and so is the plastic but what is now missing is an adjustable outfitting system for them. Sure you can carve up a bulkhead to fit U just right, but what about your buddy that wants to try it out. If they dont fit they cant try it out!!! If some one has less than a stellar first time because they dont fit will there be a second try?? Maybe but maybe not.

A strap or a much more adjustable system is a must, so that almost anyone that jumps in has a pretty good fit so they can feel the true potential of the hull.

Open boats are a premium price compared to kayaks, what would u say if if u had to carve up a seat in a sports car to make it fit and perform- would u pay a premium for that privelidge?

Would u buy a pair of expensive running shoes it u have to paid them out?

I cant try out my friends CuFly or Prelude cuz I can can not get into them and he is not that much smaller that I am. Now if I could try out his CUFLY had a decent ride or 2 from the get go I would be more likely to buy one.

So designers and tinkerers out there get working on it. A plastic version of Larry's seat made in bulk could be an answer for the mass market. But not at the price point it is at now.

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The Re-Birth of Canoeing (plastic canoe era)

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