what makes a good roll

Creeker · Post by **Creeker** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:27 pm

being on the trail to a roll I want to ask what makes a GOOD roll....obviously rolling upright.....but beyond the obvious

Does flexibility only make a finesse OC1 roll possible?
Is Flexibility a prerec to making a hand roll possible? I boated with Shawn this weekend that I heard could hand roll and OC1. Pretty impressive.

If you lack flexibility are you just fighting personal physics?

Currently I'm working on lots of core and trunk exercises to muscle my roll

I use the davey hern shoulder exercises.....they work! Anyone suggest specific exercises you use or a link to suggested core workouts for OC1/C1 paddlers or racers?

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:33 pm

Someone once told me that the more muscle you use to roll, the less technique you actually have.. No one has a 100% bombproof roll, BTW.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:35 pm

playboating... end of story.

Admin's feel free to lock this thread up.

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:46 pm

should be nicely browned, but not too dark, while still light and fluffy on the inside. always serve warm, with butter

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:54 pm

With some of that cinnamon butter you get at Texas roadhouse. mmmm

tokebelokee · Post by **tokebelokee** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:57 pm

Sorry to fly this one again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ8az05ZXqY

If you watch it, the name of the game is putting the boat in position with a hip snap and then finishing with the paddle, your hand, etc. This is particularly important on the offside-you can see how far I rotate the boat prior to giving a "tap" with the paddle.

Be sure you are in the outfitting securely. It is through the outfitting-paddler connection that you transmit body and paddle motion to the boat itself.

Playboating is key, as Craig said, as it forces you to develop a sense of being in control of the boat-not necessarily fully upright, but in control through body/boat position and resistance on the paddle. Don't necessarily view the roll as one movement with an upside down start and and upright finish; view it as moving the boat with your hips and paddle to a point where you are capable of controlling it again.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Anyone can work hard to get a good roll... a bombproof one is where you don't give up.... you know ur roll is so good, that the chances of you missing it are slim... so when you miss one, you give it another try, and then another one...and then another one...

Shawn tried 10 rolls before he finally swam on Highwater Citico...that's what it takes to have a bombproof roll.

It's more than just skill if you get what i'm saying... It's about putting yourself in harms way, again and again...and successfully rolling up everytime(even tho u wont)...its about not giving up, and abandoning ship unless in the most dire situation.

Don't forget the importance of a bombproof roll is more than just the saftey factor of not swimming into consequence... It grants you the ability and confidence to do things outside your comfort range... and that my friends is what makes you a better paddler.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:24 pm

As for just the skill factor - a great set up(paddle on top of the water, as well as body), good hipsnap, and fainting goat(keeping head and body down as you come into the boat.

Another huge factor, is having 'awareness' when you are upside down in the water... You can actually do things with ur paddle underwater, to chance the direction and edge of the boat. This is why craig speaks of playboating as givehing u that bombproof roll, cuz u roll so much, and learn so much being upside down getting chundered.

Creeker · Post by **Creeker** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:12 am

maybe I should have asked a question you guys wanted to answer.....

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:22 am

flexibility will make ur roll better yes. Core strength should be ur main focus tho... ur more wiley than u think

tokebelokee · Post by **tokebelokee** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:29 am

Wayne, you should be rolling well in no time because you are familiar with boat-rolling dynamics. You roll a kayak, yes, but you are still "grabbing" water with the paddle and using that connection to anchor yourself so you can right the boat. Open canoe roll works just the same. Visualize it like learning hip snaps in a pool-you hold the side of the pool to anchor yourself for the hip snap. Instead of holding the pool, you hold the water with the paddle blade. Tommy knows the motion, and he also knows about working the paddle underwater to get you to your strong in the first place. Just work it to death in flatwater, then move to moving water. In the context of play, I think deliberately getting window shaded in a hole is actually a good way to build the body awareness you need to know when your are coming back into control of the boat. This is true because you don't want to roll perfectly upright in a side surf situation, as you will just window shade again. You thus get a sense of brining the boat up to a point where you are on stability and braced on the paddle, but not perfectly upright.

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:44 am

I can't answer this question as someone who has a good roll, but as someone who is learning a good roll.

What will make a good roll for me is one that does not hurt my shoulder. That's first and that's most important. Secondly is reliability. I want to depend on it. Third is making it smooth. But, if you are doing it in such a way that you aren't hurting your shoulder, than it probably looks pretty smooth.

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:44 am

Any roll since 1960!

After all, Wayne, 1960 happens to be the last time the Philadelphia Eagles won a championship . . . since which time the New York Giants, I should point out, have in fact won no less than three Super Bowls. So any roll in the last fifty years. (Fifty is a big number, isn't it?)

I should mention a quick anecdote here, Wayne. A few weeks ago a girl in one of my classes came up to me, puzzled. She said there was a strange note written on the back of the essay she'd recently had passed back from me. She was wondering what it meant.

I was forced to explain to her what had happened: several young troublemakers in the ninth grade had been holding up signs in the next-door computer lab, taunting their "favorite" teacher about a recent loss his favorite team had suffered. So, I told this girl, I did what I had to do -- I grabbed the nearest piece of paper and wrote a response of my own to hold up to the glass window, the contents of which seemed to silence the hecklers . . . for at least a few seconds, anyway.

So that was how the words "I HATE MICHAEL VICK" came to be scrawled across the back of her essay in big letters.

(It was either that or tell her I was at a PETA rally that weekend.)

Now back to your regular thread . . .

Alden

Wiggins · Post by **Wiggins** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:28 pm

Just keep working at it. Your body will figure out what it needs to do as you get closer and closer to getting it. You don't need anywhere near the flexibility of a kayak roll.

I had a great kayak roll when I got my first OC1 last Feb. Doing multiple pool sessions a week I didn't get my first roll for two months, and it wasn't reliable until May.

I didn't have anyone to teach me, and only a few youtube videos for a guide. At first I was really straining and now I barely put any effort at all in a roll. It is about technique, not contorting yourself or strength.

If this fat boy can pull it off so can you!

Kyle

Creeker · Post by **Creeker** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:12 pm

I was asking the rolling questions cause when I was out with the GDI padding the low flow ocoee on Friday a week ago I flipped on a blind 3 ft ledge. Out flow Pressed to the wall (I'm sure this is a named river left spot?), totally wet and I had a pretty good hold on the wall. there was a boil line butting up to the wall my canoe was on it. If I remember correctly it might have been shawn that extended a paddle down the RL rock wall a couple feet for me to pull fully up and upright. It was a bit demorlaizing thinking I had this great hand hold but hip snap technique was failing. (pushing down hard) Then shawn's paddle handle came in and I was pulling on that like Tarzan....swinging but not making that hip snap really all that much easier.

Clearly there is a "how to" switch yet to be flipped. Still the experience leaves me scratching my head a bit. So far I got a Prelude for the winter from Mark, Now I have the Detonator from tom for at least a month to maybe try a more friendly rolling boat. The Det may give my lack of skill a wider window of success. Mark gave me a FB video from the 70's to demo a roll and Joe gave me a bob foot roll video. Tony and Gumpy hit me up for my first time out in a pool early December too. Given the cold/ice I thought I'd just throw this out to see what suggestions you guys had......gumpy I toasted some great rolls with dinner last night so your post was definately Helpful after all