Dumb squirting questions

[MarkZ]

A couple dumb questions about squirting:

1: Once an onside squirt is initiated and the stern is under, what is the correct body position during rotation? I usually find that I'm leaning somewhat forward with torso out of the water and that I'm basically leaving the blade in the water and using the powerface to hold balance and continue rotation. I see a lot of kayakers laying back onto the water and putting their arms over their heads and sort of bracing that way to balance on the stern. Is this possible or desirable in a C!?

2: How do people initiate and complete their offside squirts? My best luck initiating is with an onside forward sweep, but it leaves a lot of instability during the rotation. Is it appropriate to plant a cross bow static stroke/brace during the rotation for stability? Do some people actually initiate the offside squirt with a cross bow draw?

Thanks for any input.

[sbroam]

1. can't help much there, my on-side squirts aren't much to look at; never been good at initiating and I usually don't have to worry about "maintaining"...

2. I initiate with a stern pry; rotate back to look at the blade and watch the stern go under. As the pry goeas away from the boat it turns into a high brace that you can scull with to keep it up, or reach back for another pry to keep the spin going. Sometimes, I can take it past vertical and just splash down, which should be an opportunity for a screw up (quicky move into a roll, possibly keep your hair dry). Sometimes, I take the falling bow and smash it into a bow squirt/stall a la cartwheeling...

[jKelly-Rand]

Mark, I think Kneal could answer this question. He must not be checking the board.
I went to the Gap last Sat. and practiced both the on and off side pivots in the long boat. My on sides are about 7/10 succesfull. I start with a nice gentle curve, hull flat to the water and as I cross the eddie line sink the outside edge just slightly while appling a duffeck stroke. The trick has been not to force the spin but let the current carry you around.
The off side was not so succesfull. I again approached with a nice curve to the eddie line, with paddle on my off side I initiated a duffeck stroke while dropping the upstream edge. Most of the time I will stall just as I come parallel to the current, having to quickly switch to an on side brace or roll.

I may return to practice this Sunday. What are your plans?

[Sir Adam]

The body position for a C Squirt will be very similar to a K Squirt. For on or off-side stern squirts lean back, pry ("on-side squirts") or forward sweep ("off-side squirts" (depending on how you think of on-side vs off-side)) with a bit of lean to the boat. Once you have the depth you want level the boat off side-to side (no lean). At this point leaning forward will take you OUT of the squirt, and leaning back may keep you in it. In moving water you can stick your stick behind you to rudder a bit...it's fun!

You can use a cross-bow draw to initiate a bow squirt-I find if I'm aggressive about it I can have the boat UNDER by the time my paddle get's to the boat so I can just keep stroking right across the deck. For the reverse I try to use a reverse sweep to various different degrees of success.

Have fun!

Oh-and if you haven't gotten Jim Snyder's Squirt Book (now called "Squirt Boating and Beyond" I believe) it's worth it for the descriptions of body position alone.

[KNeal]

Hi, Mark. Yep, I've been watching this post and seeing what people have been posting, but my work has kept me from responding until now.

Scott, J Kelly-Rand, and "Sir" Adam have given very useful and accurate information, though I am surprised over Scott's claim about not being good at stern squirting !?

JK-R described the way to do it with a long boat (Viper c-1 ), so I wonder what type of boat you are playing with, Mark? All c-1's initiate the same way, but long boats require the curve and wait-until-you-feel-the-stern engagement, while short boats initiate as soon as the bow crosses perpendicular to the current (translation: when you peel out of an eddy, you wait until the bow begins to point downstream and then initiate the upstream edge with the stern pry, torso rotation, and head toward the paddle).

I am having an awesome time squirting my Viper (I told PAC that the boat would spoil me ), so I'll refer to that method. Onside is already described in the above paragraph, so I"ll suggest what I do with the offside squirt that I've been working on. The boat handling is the same with the curving and pointing downstream. I inititate the upstream edge by FIRST using the cross-bow draw (slalom-style) with LOTS of good torso rotation, body lean, and head turned toward the stern of the boat. When done correctly, that should be good enough. Watch slalom videos or watch slalom racers working out and you will see how this is done. You CAN use the forward sweep for the offside squirt, but it requires a LOT of torso lean and rotation toward the stern right as soon as you initiate the upstream edge.

Get out and practice, practice, practice. I know I am .

KNeal

P.S. I have been having a REALLY good time getting the bow to hang skyward and then lean as far toward the front deck as I can. Sometimes, I'll just lay back in the water, but that's almost a guarantee to bring the bow over. Leaning foward gives you a better chance to bring the blade out of the water and back around for a draw or another pry to keep the rotation going and the stern squirt to last longer.

[sbroam]

To clarify - my on-side squirts (sinking the edge on which I paddle) are nothing to write home about. I can do the cross-bow pivot turn type squirt, but those stay flat. I know some who can initiate with a mere forward sweep.

I got pretty good at off-side squirts, sinking the edge away from which I paddle. Mainly because we had a low water winter on our local river and all I did was goof around figuring out how to squirt in flat water. I do find that the effect of leaning forwards or backwards has a lot to do with how vertical you are; not vertical enough and a lean back can help (and can be a painful ab work out).

Or do I have my nomenclature backwards (off vs on sides)? My brain is fried from being in meetings the last two days with consultants. Computers suck and I'm considering taking up carpentry.

[Mike W.]

Lots of good tips posted so far . A while back, KNeal posted a different way to squirt. It has worked wonders for me. Come out of the eddy toward you paddle side. Do a nearly static bow draw while tilting the stern of the boat down & towards your non-paddle side. This keeps the blade in the water & adds much stability to the squirt. It also allows you to sustain the spin. It nearly elliminated my falling to my off-side & flipping. Now I either fall to my on-side (leaving the paddle in position to transition to a bow-stall or cartwheel), or I come down level.

Spinning to your non-paddling side is tougher. There used to be an eddy-line here that would allow me to do it without the paddle . But high water changed it & I now suck to my off-side.

I have some photos up, but Yahoo won't let me view them now. Anyone know where I can post my photos for free?

Look at the Viper page here on CBoats for some good photos: http://www.cboats.net/recboats/viper.shtml

Have fun!