-- Anyone paddled an Oar Raft down the Grand Canyon?
I wonder if anyone here ever did this. Some outfitters say it’s easy, some others say you need to be experienced in oar rafting (that’s what I’d guess with a 1.2 ton beast on pushy water).
-- On a 16 day 8 person trip, do you think 2 oar rafts should be enough or would you recommend three?
Cheers
Florian
Some questions to our Canyon-Experts
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bushpaddler
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Some questions to our Canyon-Experts
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the great gonzo
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I am neither an expert in the grand canyon nor in rowing a gear raft, but I did a trip down the Canyon in January and I work as a raft guide, so I have a little knowledge.
We had 2 gear rafts (18 footers) for 10 people and 14 days. We also had a Shredder , 2 kayaks and a canoe (thanks again Jim Michaud!) That was plenty for us. If however you were on rafts only, then you could think about bringing 3 of them, but there is tons of room on them, you can bring the kitchen sink with this setup even with 4 people on the raft. But there are advantages to having 3 rafts, you could go for smaller and more maneuvrable rafts and you have less weight per raft, making them again more maneuvrable.
Rowing an oar raft is very different from canoeing. once on a line changing the course of one ton 18ft behemoth is almost impossible, so the proper set-up at the top of the rapid to ensure that you are on the proper course is paramount. Maneuvering is mainly done by backferries, but then when punching holes or waves you need forward momentum. Gear rafts are very sow to accelerate and slow down. And you do NOT want to flip them, as rerighting them would be a mission and a half.
A good resource on how to maneuver a raft is the Complete Whitewater Rafters Handbook by Jeff Bennett http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Whitewate ... 007005505X . Well worth the money. he talks at length about the tactics of how to row an oar raft.
I would think that it is definitely doable, provided you practice maneuvering the raft and how it responds a lot before you start hitting the bigger rapids. They all have, at least at the level we had in January, all a relatively easy line available that keeps you out of the way of the biggest holes and waves.
TGG!
We had 2 gear rafts (18 footers) for 10 people and 14 days. We also had a Shredder , 2 kayaks and a canoe (thanks again Jim Michaud!) That was plenty for us. If however you were on rafts only, then you could think about bringing 3 of them, but there is tons of room on them, you can bring the kitchen sink with this setup even with 4 people on the raft. But there are advantages to having 3 rafts, you could go for smaller and more maneuvrable rafts and you have less weight per raft, making them again more maneuvrable.
Rowing an oar raft is very different from canoeing. once on a line changing the course of one ton 18ft behemoth is almost impossible, so the proper set-up at the top of the rapid to ensure that you are on the proper course is paramount. Maneuvering is mainly done by backferries, but then when punching holes or waves you need forward momentum. Gear rafts are very sow to accelerate and slow down. And you do NOT want to flip them, as rerighting them would be a mission and a half.
A good resource on how to maneuver a raft is the Complete Whitewater Rafters Handbook by Jeff Bennett http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Whitewate ... 007005505X . Well worth the money. he talks at length about the tactics of how to row an oar raft.
I would think that it is definitely doable, provided you practice maneuvering the raft and how it responds a lot before you start hitting the bigger rapids. They all have, at least at the level we had in January, all a relatively easy line available that keeps you out of the way of the biggest holes and waves.
TGG!
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
I think you could pull it off without too much trouble.
When I went we had two rafts for seven people, three of whom were in kayaks. As long as you are not planning on putting everyone on the rafts you should have plenty of room.
The rapids increase in difficulty gradually which would give you time to build skill for the most difficult rapids.
Kyle
When I went we had two rafts for seven people, three of whom were in kayaks. As long as you are not planning on putting everyone on the rafts you should have plenty of room.
The rapids increase in difficulty gradually which would give you time to build skill for the most difficult rapids.
Kyle
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Hans Vidkjer
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youngwillyd
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I was on a trip last year in Jan/Feb. I paddled an 18 foot cat some. I did not paddle it through any of the big named rapids. I found it pretty easy to do. I paddled one of the 16 foot rafts for a while. Being able to read the water and backward row were the main things to know.
We flipped two rafts, a dory multiple times and me in a poor canoe several times. The rafts weren't all that hard to flip back over. They had flip lines and three or four of us could get on it and flip it back over fairly easy.
We flipped two rafts, a dory multiple times and me in a poor canoe several times. The rafts weren't all that hard to flip back over. They had flip lines and three or four of us could get on it and flip it back over fairly easy.
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Remoteproductions
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GC Guide
I've guided rafts commercially down the Grand. I would say if you do not have rowing (not paddling) experience do not attempt it. The flows vary from 6500 on up to HUGE! The boats I would row weighed well over a ton. At low water it can be somewhat technical and at big water the holes can swallow large boats. If you decide to do it anyway and have the option of a third boat to split people up more, I would advise that. It can be a long trip if people are not getting along. This would also allow you to have lighter boats which are easier to flip over either way. Good luck and make sure you are with people that know how to rig lines for flipping back over.
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oopsiflipped
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There are a few GC rapids without clean lines especially for oarboats. Hance, Horn, and Lava come to mind. House Rock is the first test for a boatman in a big boat and you usually get to it on day two. It’s a tight line to miss the big hole. I’ve seen that hole flip an 18’ raft with no problem.
You’ve got to be looking ahead in a raft and similar to being in a canoe, but much farther. The biggest problem for a novice boatman is that he’ll kill his momentum since pulling back exerts the most force. Once you’re floating at the speed of the water, any big wave will push you over.
You should have an experienced boatman on your trip since it’s required by the park and if he’s willing to shepard novices down the river you should be good. There’s a lot more to being a good boatman than getting thru the rapids.
You’ve got to be looking ahead in a raft and similar to being in a canoe, but much farther. The biggest problem for a novice boatman is that he’ll kill his momentum since pulling back exerts the most force. Once you’re floating at the speed of the water, any big wave will push you over.
You should have an experienced boatman on your trip since it’s required by the park and if he’s willing to shepard novices down the river you should be good. There’s a lot more to being a good boatman than getting thru the rapids.
From the trips I've been on... the experience factor is a pretty major one. Having done this trip and several other multi-day wilderness runs, the value of the oars-man is not in his ability to get his craft downriver. His value is in those more intrinsic matters, such as being able to stop where he wants to, knowing where to pack stuff based on the days need, being able to get downriver in the wind, having the luxury (and necessary) items that only a raft owner has, etc. Knowing little things like how much beer to bring along, how to pack a cooler, and owning a portable sauna simply make for a more enjoyable experience.
As already mentioned, getting down the Grand Canyon is not all that difficult by itself. The intensity builds, with easier days giving way to more difficult and demanding ones. However just miss the days campsite, and the whole group is in chase... and to where (An Actual Experience)? Not being able to make that eddy, and a once in a life-time hike could be gone. Having freed a pinned raft on the Grand, I was glad it was not the one with my gear. And I'd be scratching my head, as how to flip or unload an overturned fully loaded 2-week raft. In my experience, simply having one rafter-boatsman- guide who has been on the run, makes the whole trip run better. Although my experience ends with only one day of rowing a snout-boat on the Grand.
As already mentioned, getting down the Grand Canyon is not all that difficult by itself. The intensity builds, with easier days giving way to more difficult and demanding ones. However just miss the days campsite, and the whole group is in chase... and to where (An Actual Experience)? Not being able to make that eddy, and a once in a life-time hike could be gone. Having freed a pinned raft on the Grand, I was glad it was not the one with my gear. And I'd be scratching my head, as how to flip or unload an overturned fully loaded 2-week raft. In my experience, simply having one rafter-boatsman- guide who has been on the run, makes the whole trip run better. Although my experience ends with only one day of rowing a snout-boat on the Grand.
Did a trip last summer. Have previous experience on Middle FOrk of Salmon and Deso/Grey of the Green. That said, the GC is nothing like any other due to its sheer size and power.
Our levels were anywhere from 7k up to 17k during the 19-day trip.
Main difference is there are some must make moves in Crystal, House Rock, Bedrock, Hance, Horn and a few others. The moves are usually to break the lateral wave at the top of the rapid to ease the raft into the slower water to avoid the hole or other obstacle down further in the rapid.
These are usually done with the stern facing down stream and the oarsman trying to tuck in behind either a rock or boulder fan coming off the shore.
I missed the move at Crystal, hit the wave hole at an angle, put the boat up on its left tube, fell out but never losing hold of the raft at which point my wife jumped on the oars after highsiding as best she could. Got us through w/o beaching on the island. We were trying to sneak the right to catch Lower Crystal camp. Count me lucky!
Lava for us that day was line up on a small wave at the top of the rapid which would push the boat right straight toward the M-wave without slinging you toward the cheese grater rock. It was pretty much straight forward with no real move required to be on line.
We did run into a couple of boats (two adult men, one adult woman, two teenage boys, one young boy and girl about 7 and 9) on a trip by themselves. Their experience was a 5-day oaring class at the NOC. Their only mistake was at Killer Fang Falls at mile 232 when they flipped one raft. A commercial trip did run the two small children through Lava for them.
Just make sure you have an experienced trip leader with you. That means someone with multiple trips if you can. Best safety practices for sure!
Our levels were anywhere from 7k up to 17k during the 19-day trip.
Main difference is there are some must make moves in Crystal, House Rock, Bedrock, Hance, Horn and a few others. The moves are usually to break the lateral wave at the top of the rapid to ease the raft into the slower water to avoid the hole or other obstacle down further in the rapid.
These are usually done with the stern facing down stream and the oarsman trying to tuck in behind either a rock or boulder fan coming off the shore.
I missed the move at Crystal, hit the wave hole at an angle, put the boat up on its left tube, fell out but never losing hold of the raft at which point my wife jumped on the oars after highsiding as best she could. Got us through w/o beaching on the island. We were trying to sneak the right to catch Lower Crystal camp. Count me lucky!
Lava for us that day was line up on a small wave at the top of the rapid which would push the boat right straight toward the M-wave without slinging you toward the cheese grater rock. It was pretty much straight forward with no real move required to be on line.
We did run into a couple of boats (two adult men, one adult woman, two teenage boys, one young boy and girl about 7 and 9) on a trip by themselves. Their experience was a 5-day oaring class at the NOC. Their only mistake was at Killer Fang Falls at mile 232 when they flipped one raft. A commercial trip did run the two small children through Lava for them.
Just make sure you have an experienced trip leader with you. That means someone with multiple trips if you can. Best safety practices for sure!
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Jim Michaud
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I'm usually the guy that's rounding up the oarsmen for Grand Canyon trips. I've invited several that have never rowed anything before and a few that didn't even have whitewater experience. Every one of them did just fine. Of course, we had very experienced oarsmen allong on the trips to give guidence.
If you would like an illustrated guide on how to row all of the rapids send me a message and I'll email it to you.
If anyone has a trip coming up in the future and needs an experienced oarsman give me a call. I've been on 27 Grand Canyon trips so far. I'm already booked for this year and next year though.
Jim M
If you would like an illustrated guide on how to row all of the rapids send me a message and I'll email it to you.
If anyone has a trip coming up in the future and needs an experienced oarsman give me a call. I've been on 27 Grand Canyon trips so far. I'm already booked for this year and next year though.
Jim M
I was the permit holder 2 years ago around 12K flow @GC. we had 4 rafts for 16 people with loads of extra room. 2 rafts for 8 is fine. I rowed around the putin at Lee's for 10 minutes and knew I was going to captain a raft all the way (297 miles). I just dumped my kayak at the tops of the 9's, and 10's to kayak them after a quick hike back up....that was pretty much all the kayaking I wanted out of the canyon except for some slot canyon creeking.....Monsoon=awesome at tapeats cr.
I had zero experience but I know how not to be late on a move and I immediately was working it to figure out how not to be late on raft moves on day 1. pretty easy stuff.
The first 20 miles are very easy to learn on as they ramp up slowly. within 2 days I was making lines harder than they needed to be just for fun. Sure your "test" piece quickly comes in house rock but after a couple days you likely won't even scout rapids under class 8's. At least we didn't. If the rapid didn't have a major reputation or was under CL8 we just fired it up. Different flows are a different game. This is the pattern our group was comfortable with **GIVEN** the flows we saw each day. Each group has to find that comfort level.
1 oarsman had no whitewater experience. 1 oarsman was 70 with hardly class 3 k1 ability, Mark z and I split rowing a raft, and another raft had K1 rower of the hour just flipping in an out.
given the 12-ish K, flows I was really shocked with the minimal technical knowhow to pull it off. If you lack skills just make sure you have a plan and the knowledge of how to flip over a flipped raft without crushing anyone.
one piece of advice is to let everyone know that there are 20 miles of whitewtaer and 277 of flat....everyone can and should expect to row. I had 3 rowers get hurt and unable to row for 1-10 days. 1 went down after lifting a cooler for draining, one lifted an ammo can and dislocated their tail bone and 1 had a freak day of blindness. crazy stuff good and bad goes on in that canyon.
Enjoy the adventure.
I had zero experience but I know how not to be late on a move and I immediately was working it to figure out how not to be late on raft moves on day 1. pretty easy stuff.
The first 20 miles are very easy to learn on as they ramp up slowly. within 2 days I was making lines harder than they needed to be just for fun. Sure your "test" piece quickly comes in house rock but after a couple days you likely won't even scout rapids under class 8's. At least we didn't. If the rapid didn't have a major reputation or was under CL8 we just fired it up. Different flows are a different game. This is the pattern our group was comfortable with **GIVEN** the flows we saw each day. Each group has to find that comfort level.
1 oarsman had no whitewater experience. 1 oarsman was 70 with hardly class 3 k1 ability, Mark z and I split rowing a raft, and another raft had K1 rower of the hour just flipping in an out.
given the 12-ish K, flows I was really shocked with the minimal technical knowhow to pull it off. If you lack skills just make sure you have a plan and the knowledge of how to flip over a flipped raft without crushing anyone.
one piece of advice is to let everyone know that there are 20 miles of whitewtaer and 277 of flat....everyone can and should expect to row. I had 3 rowers get hurt and unable to row for 1-10 days. 1 went down after lifting a cooler for draining, one lifted an ammo can and dislocated their tail bone and 1 had a freak day of blindness. crazy stuff good and bad goes on in that canyon.
Enjoy the adventure.