"OC1 is a joke"

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:05 pm

I finally think I've come up with a response to that old chestnut that will shut people up... or at the least make them look foolish if they try to argue.

Facebook wrote:
>OC1 is a joke...

-Easy to say, but can you do that?

>Why would you want to, if you want to do freestyle use a regular C1. Its like saying trail riding is fun let take my road bike... Im not saying its easy, im just saying whats the point?

-When you ask that, you should first try to answer the question: "what the point of kayaking or c1 is, when you could just stay home and watch the telly..."
Because when you can answer that question yourself, you better understand how someone interested in paddling oc1 came to be doing that rather than another discipline...

Fundimentally, all paddlesport represents a challenge, some people like different challenges to you; that doesn't make those disciplines that you don't participate in a joke, it makes them something that you're not interested in doing.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:44 pm

Back in the 70s, people paddled to see rivers and rocks and rapids, and there wasn't as much of what we call "play." The kayaks didn't even do enders very well. But I have photos of people in Grummans running ledges backwards for laughs, and the few of us in c-1 were doing anything the kayaks could do.

I can understand someone speaking derisively about OC-1 if what they mean is that they can't do in an OC-1 what they can do in a kayak. I can't do things in my OC-1s that I could do in c-1 or k-1. But that's kind of like saying that you can't do things on a Harley or a Goldwing that you *can* do on a Ducati.

I don't paddle anything very hard any more, but sometimes on class 2-3, when I weave through rocks and kayakers to try a couple of little surf waves, I've had kayakers express a little admiration for what a 15 foot open boat can be made to do.

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:30 pm

My response would be "In the cosmic sense, aren't we all just jokes?"
And then peel out of the eddy while they are lost in though trying to make heads or tails of what I just said...

But really... We're all out on the water having fun. Personally, I enjoy OC1 more than kayaking or C1ing, but I would definitely spend a day in a kayak before I would spend a day not boating.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

TNbound wrote:My response would be "In the cosmic sense, aren't we all just jokes?"
And then peel out of the eddy while they are lost in though trying to make heads or tails of what I just said...

But really... We're all out on the water having fun. Personally, I enjoy OC1 more than kayaking or C1ing, but I would definitely spend a day in a kayak before I would spend a day not boating.

It's denigrating into "should oc1 freestyle be in the worlds" and I'm tempted to agree that under the current set of rules, perhaps it shouldn't...
Whoever wrote the rules intended to keep it distinct as a discipline when they allowed short boats; really didn't see what's been happening of late coming...

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:12 pm

While I am not sure exactly what you are getting at, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it has something to do with converted kayaks competing in the OC class.

Converting a kayak to OC seems a bit of a gray area, especially when you consider all (I think at least...) the C1s in the competition were converted. At that point it seems like more of a contest of how well one can paddle a kayak in different positions with a different paddle.

Why not have two divisions of OC1. Long and short. Personally, I would love to see more big enders and pirouettes. Setting a length limit would separate it into two very distinct disciplines.

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:56 pm

I'm sort of agree that "OC 1" at the ICF Worlds is a joke. I also think all of the other categories are as well. It's just not structured to be exciting/entertaining and actually showcase what people in boats can really do. Way too robotic and the same for my viewing pleasure, Don't get me wrong I love doing all of the moves (k1) but my goal is to try to do them bigger and with more style, not 'textbook' and robotic.
Why don't the bring back the downriver freestyle? I think that would showcase boater's skills way better, OC, K1, or whatever class.

Just my opinion.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:09 pm

RapidMediaTVGuy wrote:It's just not structured to be exciting/entertaining and actually showcase what people in boats can really do. Way too robotic and the same for my viewing pleasure, Don't get me wrong I love doing all of the moves (k1) but my goal is to try to do them bigger and with more style, not 'textbook' and robotic.

Just my opinion.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

What can they "do" exactly? How many times in a row can the top video boaters do all of these awesome and dynamic moves... on command? How'd they do at Bus-eater when the Worlds were there? I'm going to call total B.S. on that one. Sure... there are some paddlers doing increbile stuff... but how many hours would I have to sit on shore to wait for one of them to do that one trick?

The Worlds is like a gymnastics meet... all on the same uneven bars doing what they can in 45 seconds. Seems fair to me. Why criticize?

That being said... the WW-Grand Prix was probably the coolest event/happening I've seen since I got involved in this sport. Great stuff.

Facebook wrote:OC1 is a joke...

For those 'haters' out there... seriously... tell 'em not to f@(&ing watch it if they don't like it and get over it. Sheeshsus...

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:18 pm

it's not the greatest window into what can be done in the sport. Your example of gymnastics are a great example. Ever watch some parkour vids? Those are basically gymnasts without the 'structured rules'. Seems more exciting and fun to watch and makes me want to try it. Watching gymnastics doesn't.

Your other example of the worlds at Buseater is another perfect example. The athletes didn't try to throw the biggest and most stylish moves they could because the rules don't encourage it therefore it wasn't as entertaining as it could have been.

I'm not taking anything away from the ICF Worlds athletes they are amazing, in fact they are the same athletes that can go bigger and do more than everyone else but wont in a competition because that's not how they'll win.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:28 pm

Dane Jackson won the WW-Grand Prix right?

Here's another example of "Hater-talk"
http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052290847/
Leland & Jeremy had great replies.

Maybe someone should write an article...

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:38 pm

Dane won the Grand Prix! Exactly what I said earlier that it's mostly the same boaters winning competitions like the Grand Prix and the worlds.
Watch footage from Dane at the Grand prix and then from the Worlds. Better yet get a non boater to watch and ask them what they think?

I also don't appreciate being called a 'hater' for stating my opinion - especially since I don't 'hate' freestyle or the worlds at all. Just saying it's not, IN MY OPINON, as interesting to watch.

Just my take, if you don't agree that's okay, I don't think your a hater you just see it different.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:48 pm

I think he's refering to "Boatertalk", and not you...

And I echo that as usual Jeremy has a great post (over there, not here in this case) that is worth a read.

The best "competition" events to me are still the informal ones... Jimicup, Cquirt, or getting together with a few friends intentionally or not. Generally all the "competitors" agree on who had the best ride.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:03 pm

Of course I wasn't calling you a 'hater' Dan... but there are a LOT of people out there on the net that really do seem to hate freestyle, think it's a joke and in particular make a lot of negative remarks about the OC1 portion of it.

Here's an idea... interview Eli Helbert, Jeremy Laucks, James Weir, Mark Scriver, Paul Mason and anyone you can find that currently competes in or has competed in OC1 Freestyle and ask them why it's important to them... why they do it and why they feel it still belongs in the Worlds... then write an article.

I think there's going to be a lot of comparisons to the Worlds and the WW-Grand Prix down the road... or down the river for that matter.

Listen to this interview from Pat Camblin when you get a free moment.
http://inbetweenswims.com/?p=242

Then read this...
http://www.kanurodeo.de/archiv/kanurode ... worlds.pdf

This sport is way too small for animosity...

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:37 pm

Misunderstood the 'hater' comment my bad.

Great idea on the article too. It might be good to go from the angle to get some discussion across all segments of boating like Freestyle, Squirt, slalom, creek etc. just to open up some eyes and ears (and maybe close some mouths) to the different ways you can have FUN on the water and improve your paddling.

I'll bring it up at our next meeting.

I'm going boatin'.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:48 pm

RapidMediaTVGuy wrote:I'm going boatin'

Cool Dan... just be sure that you don't do any freestyle tricks, utlize slalom moves to get to any features and for lord's sake whatever you do don't front surf... that kind of stuff is so 1999

funkidreadz · Post by **funkidreadz** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:33 pm

OC1 is a joke, why is it a joke? because people laugh, most of all the people kneeing in the boats doing it, that makes OC1 great.

It is definitely not the most efficient way of performing freestyle manoeuvres and might even have less competitors than junior ladies BUT for those who take part it is important, they have invested just as much time, money and heart in training and travelling as every other competitor who enters the Worlds and simply due to these reasons deserve as much respect as the guy who wins the Mens K1.

OC1 might not be the most efficient boat for playboating but it is my boat of choice. I love OC1 I don't care if you don't, it is my sport, my life, my future.
James

C-Forum

"OC1 is a joke"

"OC1 is a joke"

Maybe it's not OC1 but 'freestyle'

Re: Maybe it's not OC1 but 'freestyle'

Not criticizing just saying ..

You keep making my point for me....

Sorry