Practice for you hard edgers

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:29 pm

Phil,
With that kind of tilt, do you need a more conservative angle when you cross the eddy line?

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:40 pm

philcanoe wrote:... giving away precious distance...

Distance... it is... precious, to me...

... that's just pretty dam funny...

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:54 pm

if you can get past the music and the fact that they're in C1's you can see (subtley) what Phil is talking about in this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EW3uW7F ... re=related at 1:17, 3:27, 5:35 & 7:06 when they go from gate 10 to 11... a downstream peelout/lean most likely wouldn't have lined them directly into gate 11... like I said it subtle.

not sure where you'll be able to see it online in an OC though...

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:05 pm

They re crossing the eddy line titling down stream, THEN tilting upstream when they re in the current.... that makes more sense to me. You can really see what it does for them.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:19 pm

ian123 wrote:They re crossing the eddy line titling down stream, THEN tilting upstream when they re in the current.... that makes more sense to me. You can really see what it does for them.

yes... but if let's say gate 11 was up closer/higher they would have used less dowstream lean on the peelout... these guys know how to put the boat right directly into the gate as one can clearly see.

kerrye · Post by **kerrye** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:46 pm

Most of those C-1 moves seem to involve engaging the edge in the stern of the boat and not the bow. Isn't that much more difficult to accomplish in an OC unless the boat is designed with edges in the stern and rounded chines in the front? What are the differences between engaging a stern edge as opposed to much more of the boat?

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:53 pm

The proximity of the next gate determines boat's attitude coming out of the gate. If I must cross the current to get to the next gate, I stay pretty flat. If a gradual turn is called for, I lean the boat appropriately. If I must make a sharp turn close to the eddy line, I'll stern-pivot as soon as I clear the pole.

To a large extent, I'll do the same things with my open boat.

Speaking of turns, if I combine the edge-lean with shifting my weight, I can change the boat's center-of-rotation. Upstream lean and lean-body-back and the boat pivots near the stern and the bow slides around, downstream lean and body-lean-forward lets the stern slide around.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:17 pm

I believe that Martikan and Estanguet are dropping their upstream edge coming into gate 11 in order to load the stern and set-up a slight stern pivot into and out of 11. It doesn't appear to me to be related to the line that they are taking from gate 10 across the jet. In fact, they don't come off their downstream edge until they are most of the way across the jet and approaching 11.

John

skooks · Post by **skooks** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:12 am

yarnellboat wrote: Many in BC frown on, or even mock, tandem cross-bows for eddy turns, even though they've worked well everywhere forever - I've heard that discussion many times between people from BC and Ontario. Wouldn't surprise me if the bow pry you saw was the paddler from BC, though I'll bet the boat was still heeled downstream.

Pat.

Sad but True Pat. I've run across this unenlightened attitude many times out here. Fortunately the tandem X-bow stroke works perfectly well even if people don't 'approve of it'. You should see the looks I get when I break out the tandem cross-bow from the stern of the Viper-2! Firing into an eddy with both blades on the inside of the turn really cranks the boat around.

-Don

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:18 pm

ian123 wrote:Phil,
With that kind of tilt, do you need a more conservative angle when you cross the eddy line?

With the upstream edge 'peel out' - the lean is only as little as required to produce a wee-bit of grab (you can and will increase as comfortable). With the upstream edge 'eddy turn' the lean can be quite severe, which produces quite the turn (like on a dime). Remember sometimes too much opposite-lean can prevent good eddy line penetration when performing eddy turns, and while peeling-out it can result in a poor (think ferry type) angle. There is a wide variance of leaning which will work in either case; however in general, leaning only as much as required produces the best results.

IHMO (:) ) it seems most people tend to lean too much in general. Which is something that can kill speed and efficiency. From trying to increase speed in slalom racing I've noticed just how little lean is required, and how over leaning sacrifices speed. All that rocking around just kills efficiency, requiring the use of more paddle power (and maybe strokes) to get the same job done. To me there appears to be a happy medium without too much loss, but when taken to extremes it produces less than desirable results.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:30 pm

when you downhill ski or snowboard... edges

old and in the way · Post by **old and in the way** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:03 am

Why does it seem like we are acting as if this is something new?

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:23 am

old and in the way wrote:Why does it seem like we are acting as if this is something new?

see post #1 of this thread...

FullGnarlzOC wrote:Here is a homework assignment for those of you that paddle hard edge boats and are lookin for new things to learn...the Outside edge eddy turn.

old and in the way · Post by **old and in the way** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:26 am

Craig Smerda wrote:
old and in the way wrote:Why does it seem like we are acting as if this is something new?
see post #1 of this thread...

Rhetorical question...

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:48 am

old and in the way wrote:Why does it seem like we are acting as if this is something new?

...thank you.

(my responses were simply an attempt to help those who did not know, as this site is often found by those new to the sport)