How does boat size change ideal paddle length?

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:57 am

Ok, so this may be a really bad question and it may be dealt with in old posts but the search terms are so common in this forum that there are more results than can be sorted though in a reasonable time.

I am moving from a 15' Nova Craft Prospector to this:

https://sites.google.com/a/harchak.com/ ... pper-canoe

9.5" long and very rockered, my first real WW boat. I just finished building thanks to Mikey B.

My question is this, currently I am using a 57" Norse paddle that is actually just a bit short for me soloing my tandem prospector but in the teeny canoe (for me at least) it feels way too long. I am 5'8" with a 30" inseam and the boat is 29" wide. I have a 54" paddle that feels better but in some ways too short and maybe in some ways too long. Should I be learning to use the longer paddle or is this a situation where a shorter paddle is called for. I can easily cut don the Norse (it has a skypole shaft and the T-handle is just held in with a roll pin) and it is a bit short for my other boat anyway.

I know that a lot of this is subject to personal preference but if it is better to stick with a longer paddle then I will persevere.

Sorry for such a mundane question.

Aaron

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:08 am

I'd go shorter, as having a too long paddle is a great way to trip yourself up in shallow water.

A longer paddle will be noticeably more powerful, but at the expense of control and to your definate detriment on shallow rocky rivers.

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:11 am

What a pretty boat!

Paddles are sooooo subjective. If you have two different paddle lengths already there's no requirement to rush to something else... it shouldn't hinder you to work with both and decide if either length, or a different one, is what you 'need'.

Congrats on that boat, and thanks for the picture!!!

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:55 am

Paddle length is indeed very subjective, but a few comments:
1) Check out the "Paddles" section above - there is a good way to get a rough size (shaft length being shoulder to water level when sitting in the boat, basically)
2) As alluded to above, seat height matters most from boat to boat (IMhO)
3) As we are the same size (height and inseam) I can tell you I like a 54" for my small boats (C1s with low seats) though Davey Hearn recommended a 56" for me (and I've found it IS better for my slalom boat and other higher seated boats. It's what I use most in my open flatwater boats now too).

So if your seat is high (over 8") I suspect 57" is fine. What may feel to big with that Norse is the blade size, depending on the model.

tennOC · Post by **tennOC** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:15 pm

That's one cool canoe! You're going to have to upgrade from that Norse just for aesthetics if nothing else. With all that blade surface on a Norse I'll bet you'll spend most of you paddling effort doing correction strokes.

Why not keep the wood theme going and build your own paddle? 56" should be about right.

Congrats again on the "woodie".

bkebs · Post by **bkebs** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:31 pm

That really is a cool boat. We are the same height/inseam. I use a 56 and am happy with it in my Outrage. It felt long at first, but I like it now. I can tell you that I plan on getting paddles in 54 and 57 or 58 to play with.

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:53 pm

Thanks all for the compliments. I think it is a cool looking boat too.

My seat height is 8.75". But, I do have thick knee pads and 1/2" of foam on the floor. So, it is effectively closer to 8".

My Norse paddle does have a rather large feeling solum style blade. It is 8"x18" but it feels bigger than the numbers would indicate.

I do plan on trying my hand at making paddles eventually. But I am a little burnt out right now from building my first boat in a month.

I have my eye on an aquabound carbon edge paddle. But, I have not found anyone in my part of the world that stocks them so that I can feel it before I buy. Also, I don't yet know what length to order.

Thanks again all for the feedback.

Aaron

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:01 pm

Here is a link for more pictures
if anyone is interested:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 2f943f236a

Aaron

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:42 pm

Even small accidents backed by the weight of a Norse may batter the glass coat of a stripper into shards and pulp.

If I were ordering a Mitchell slalom paddle to replace a Norse, the overall length of the new paddle would be less, because the blade length is less. Paddle length has partly to do with the center-of-pressure of a paddle blade, which is determined by blade length, width, blade shape, and blade curvature.

Krikkit was concerned about how too long a paddle might cause tripping or difficulty paddling in the shallows. Quite true, although at my height and using 61.5" slalom paddles, I seldom trip, and compensate easily for shallows by lifting my trunk and shoulders. The key thing is that the paddle length be right for efficient forward paddling.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:53 pm

whole heartedly agree

tennOC wrote:That's one cool canoe! You're going to have to upgrade from that Norse just for aesthetics if nothing else. With all that blade surface on a Norse I'll bet you'll spend most of you paddling effort doing correction strokes.

Why not keep the wood theme going and build your own paddle? 56" should be about right.

Congrats again on the "woodie".

Another believing paddle length is largely a mater of personal taste (and will often change over time); however I don't really see/think it will be that much of a major difference. In between boats - oh yes... but not really between length of paddle. On the next trip, you might try swapping/borrowing another paddle for a couple minutes. BTW - That's a really nice job on the wood bending!

Take care - and remember - thin wood is way brittle.

pblanc · Post by **pblanc** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:08 pm

Given your size Aaron, for paddling whitewater you are probably going to want a paddle in the 54-56" overall length range, but as Gary pointed out, the blade length of paddles does vary somewhat so the paddle should ideally be sized by the shaft length rather than the overall length.

Most whitewater paddlers use a paddle that places the grip hand anywhere from bridge of the nose level to hairline level when taking a forward stroke with the blade fully immersed. That is a bit longer than most flat water paddlers would consider ideal, but the additional length allows you to get the blade further out to the bow or stern end of the boat to make correction strokes more effective.

The exact shaft length will depend on your torso height, your saddle height (and the saddle height is how high the saddle places your butt above the hull bottom, not some foam glued to the hull bottom, because this determines how high your grip hand will be relative to the water), personal preference, and to some extent the boat length.

With a much shorter boat you can go with a little shorter paddle and still get the blade well forward or aft.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:57 pm

ezwater wrote:Krikkit was concerned about how too long a paddle might cause tripping or difficulty paddling in the shallows. Quite true, although at my height and using 61.5" slalom paddles, I seldom trip, and compensate easily for shallows by lifting my trunk and shoulders. The key thing is that the paddle length be right for efficient forward paddling.

EZ how tall are you? (IIRC you're very tall, but I can't recollect with any certainty).

For what it's worth, the shallowness thing is perhaps a slightly UK-centric comment, as rivers which vary massively and sporadically in depth and often have underwater fudge-up rocks are the norm at all grades, which I'm told is not the norm for most of north america (where I'm told that's more charicteristic of harder, low volume rivers)... Depending where you're paddling it may well be food for thought though.

I've got a range of paddles from 46" to 58", with my main paddle being 55" which isn't short short; but, considering I'm 6'3" and use it in boats with either a 6 or 12 inch saddle, certainly isn't long.

redbeardcanoeworks · Post by **redbeardcanoeworks** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:27 pm

I have the same questions about paddle length but with this post I just want to know more about the boat.
Where did you get the plans? How did you build the forms (did you loft off of an existing boat or did you find a place to buy form layouts or what?) What did you use for cedar thickness? What did you use for fiberglass layers and epoxy? Do you have a friend paddling a equal stripper and how has it held up?
I have built several strippers and kevlar boats for flat water but have never seen plans for a ww short boat and am very interested.
DAVE

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Just had a look at the stinkeye photos... Very cool, can i ask if the large flat bottom and early rocker breaks are a design feature or are because of the awkwardness of making the cedar strips conform to a boat that's more heavily and complexly curved?

It looks like it would surf very nicely indeed, and spin pretty well too.

Very pretty looking boat.

Mikey B · Post by **Mikey B** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:38 am

Dave and Josh...the Stink eye is my design. It started out as more or less as something I could play around in the East Race WW course but have a more traditional canoe look. I was paddling a Taureau, which I happened to be one of the guys who got to like that boat, but had always wanted a Spanishfly. Craig hadn't yet come out with the L'Edge...which I wanted but knew I wouldn't be able to afford for quite awhile...so he inspired me to trying to design my own. The Taureau I always felt was just a bit to narrow for me, the SpanishFly is one of the best designs ever...so I was inspired by them, but basically drew up what I thought might be a decent boat. I added fullness in the ends, drew the rocker profile basically as what looked good to me, made the side profile on the original Stinky sort of slab sided like the Outrage just because I thought it looked nice. IT turned out to make it a bit harder to roll in aerated water so I relieved it in Aaron's boat and soon to be Al's boat. I really liked my Shaman, which had more rocker in the stern which I liked some of the performance attributes of that so I added more rocker in the stern. When I tried it out on flatwater, it kind of felt better with it the other way around. But one run down the East Race and I switched it around to more rocker in the stern.
SO in essence, I just drew up what I thought looked nice...transferred it to paper, and just lucked out that it turned out pretty ok. Oh, and the bottom isn't as flat as it appears...slight arch in it. But it does surf quite nicely.
I've already had somebody else want to build one. I'm not sure what the ramifications of letting people build my design or what steps to take for credit. I guess if somebody is crazy enough to try and build one I would send them station forms tracings and tips on some of the hard spots...$10 for time to copy and mail them?
If nothing else it might inspire more folks to getting the L'Edge or Option.
Mike

C-Forum

How does boat size change ideal paddle length?

How does boat size change ideal paddle length?

Re: How does boat size change ideal paddle length?

cool canoe

ok, tell us more about the boat

Stink eye