Installing a pump + canoe sawhorses

[avlclimber]

(well, Reinstalling a pump.)
over the break I took on this project on my Prelude and post it here for others' reference.

I found a photos and info from other installs here:
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... 57&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and from other forum searches i have lost and can't re-find.

The original install was done very nicely, and i included pics of that. the pumps were screwed to a sheet of abs, then glued to foam and glued to the hull. the foam was due to the length of the screws. this system was very secure, but left 3/4 inch of water in the boat due to the risers. The re-install is designed to keep the float switch and pumps on the hull of the boat and get out more water. (and keep my toes warmer!) The suggestion was not to glue the bases down but strap them down. So I shoved a piece of 1/4 inch piping through the saddle foam as a low anchor point to strap things down to. The switch I glued down, but the Weldwood didn't take very well; we'll see how that holds up over time.

Link to pictures here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1050311225 ... directlink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also built a boat stand out of 2' scrap 2x2. I stole the idea from someone else, but it works wonderfully for holding the boat in any position to work on and not crawling around on the floor.
Good luck!

[caverdan]

Nice job! I'm also getting ready to re-do the pump in my Probe which has a manual switch. Going to try and use a piece of fence rail to put the pump (a single) under the saddle, strap the battery to the pedestal between the footpeg rails, and then fish the switch wire through the pedestal to a switch mounted on the front (no bulkhead on mine). it was previously a one piece setup. Any advice, anyone, on fishing wiring through the pedestal?

I can see where the float switch would have its advantages, but I could also see it cutting on and off annoyingly at low water levels unless you lean hard to the side that closes the circuit when it gets to that level. Does that drive you nuts? Which kind of switching is most common, manual or float?

[Todhunter]

Caverdan - I like the manual switch. Be sure the top of the switch is mounted below the tops of the gunwales, or you can unintentionally turn the pump on doing certain strokes. Straighten out a coat hanger and push it through the foam. Tape the wires to the end of the coat hanger, then pull them back through the foam. Tape really good, but don't make a huge knot of tape or it won't go back through the hole.

[caverdan]

Install went well, thanks for the wiring tip. Looks like some of the other under-seat pump installations I've seen (sbroam's pics come to mind). However, even though the pump isn't super tight in there, when I get on the saddle, my weight causes compression of the foam which makes the pump grind against the hull when you flip it on. I'm rigging up a piece of pvc with a cap to put the pump inside (with big openings to let the water in, duh; also holes for hose and wires) that will hopefully take the pressure off the pump. Anybody else have a more elegant solution while still keeping the pump under the seat? I don't want to take too much more foam out of the saddle, and I'm afraid I could leave a huge gap between pump and foam and it would just compress any way.

Thoughts?

[Sir Adam]

More info on canoe horses:

http://cboats.net/outfitting/ricrack.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ezwater]

Interesting sling horses, similar to what we used to cradle rowing shells.

On horses, I bought a set of fancy plastic horsies for a specific reason. Sometimes one not only needs a canoe elevated off the floor, but one needs the gunwales accurately held in a horizontal plane. An example is for installing a sliding seat assembly in a tandem. By tying the canoe *underneath* a plastic set of sawhorses, the gunwales firmly up against the crossbars, one can get everything dimensionally adjusted. This might work even for thwart installation. The gunwales can be set wider or narrower and held in place.

So the approximately 40 bucks for fancy plastic sawhorses may not be a pointless expense after all.

[pmp]

a question regarding battery power. i can get my hands on some 10.8 v lithium batteries from a drill. Does anyone know if that will run the pump in a l'edge? I imagine lower power won't actually wreck the pump, just might not pump much water?
Paul

[Todhunter]

Install went well, thanks for the wiring tip. Looks like some of the other under-seat pump installations I've seen (sbroam's pics come to mind). However, even though the pump isn't super tight in there, when I get on the saddle, my weight causes compression of the foam which makes the pump grind against the hull when you flip it on. I'm rigging up a piece of pvc with a cap to put the pump inside (with big openings to let the water in, duh; also holes for hose and wires) that will hopefully take the pressure off the pump. Anybody else have a more elegant solution while still keeping the pump under the seat? I don't want to take too much more foam out of the saddle, and I'm afraid I could leave a huge gap between pump and foam and it would just compress any way.

Thoughts?

Get a piece of vinyl fence post and put the pump inside it, like this - http://www.horizontees.com/Horizon_Grap ... ddles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sir Adam]

Regarding 10.8v batteries and pumps- check your pumps specifications - some will run on lower power (than below 10v you many not have enough juice if they are designed for 12), but others have a lower battery cutoff built in - so they may not run even on your fully charged 10.8v battery.

[caverdan]

Get a piece of vinyl fence post and put the pump inside it, like this - http://www.horizontees.com/Horizon_Grap ... ddles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Awesome looking saddles in that link!

Fence rail was my original plan, but I ended up wiith a 4" fence rail, (cover for a 4x4) and the pump didn't fit inside. I'm using tht rail for another conversion (Jefe), but I did have a piece of 4" PVC pipe lying around which I cobbled into a workable setup last night. I'll post some pics when I get a chance, but the PVC is vertically oriented with a simple cap on top and interlinked with the bracket doodad on the tsunami pump, which looks like it will work well. I only carved half way into the saddle to preserve some structural integrity, (and since the saddle is a factory mohawk and already glued in) so the pump sits in a nook and is held in place by a cam strap through the seat tubes and across the housing.

Thanks!

[Todhunter]

Get a piece of vinyl fence post and put the pump inside it, like this - http://www.horizontees.com/Horizon_Grap ... ddles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Awesome looking saddles in that link!

Fence rail was my original plan, but I ended up wiith a 4" fence rail, (cover for a 4x4) and the pump didn't fit inside. I'm using tht rail for another conversion (Jefe), but I did have a piece of 4" PVC pipe lying around which I cobbled into a workable setup last night. I'll post some pics when I get a chance, but the PVC is vertically oriented with a simple cap on top and interlinked with the bracket doodad on the tsunami pump, which looks like it will work well. I only carved half way into the saddle to preserve some structural integrity, (and since the saddle is a factory mohawk and already glued in) so the pump sits in a nook and is held in place by a cam strap through the seat tubes and across the housing.

Thanks!

Bob makes the best saddles. Go to your local home depot and look for a vinyl post by Freedom Vinyl Fencing that is 4.75 x 4.75 - that is what I am using.

[h2sk1]

a question regarding battery power. i can get my hands on some 10.8 v lithium batteries from a drill. Does anyone know if that will run the pump in a l'edge? I imagine lower power won't actually wreck the pump, just might not pump much water?
Paul

There are other issues that may arise with using LiIon batteries. These batteries may explode if discharged too quickly. No kidding. Some Lithium Ion battery packs have built-in electronic fuses and over-current protection to stop that from happening. Other LiIon battery packs rely on the drill to limit the current.

Here's the rub, a pump looks like a short-circuit (or nearly so) when turning on, and this can be quite dangerous for your battery. At best, it will wear it out quickly, at worst, it will damage it or blow it up. You'll need a soft-start circuit on your pump to slowly turn it on.

This is not an issue for Lead Acid or even NiMh batteries. LiPo batteries, which are even more expensive than LiIon, do a pretty good job of starting pumps without a soft-start, but even that isn't recommended.

[horizongfx]

Here's the rub, a pump looks like a short-circuit (or nearly so) when turning on, and this can be quite dangerous for your battery. At best, it will wear it out quickly, at worst, it will damage it or blow it up. You'll need a soft-start circuit on your pump to slowly turn it on.

How would one go about building or buying a soft start circuit ?