Why isn't OCing popular on the west coast? (or is it?)

[oopsiflipped]

Hmmm, Idaho isn't on dooley's list......

Ask yourself why the best canoeist doesn't have some of the bet paddling anywhere on his listJ

High volume runs expose the inefficiency of single blade propulsion. Add a big whole in the top and Idaho class three doesn't look like much fun anymore. Also, most canoers can't roll.

[Dooleyoc-1]

Haha I want to go to Idaho Gabe! I can just make it out west only so often so it will be a while before I get out there. And yes, those big water runs in Idaho look pretty awesome... but not very canoe friendly

[Larry Horne]

I think there's one simple reason that canoeing isn't as popular out west. Lack of eddys to stop and empty. Period.

that sounds definative. unfortunately it's wrong.
sorry dooley. california is almost all pool/drop. yeah it can be stout 'cuz most rivers and creeks we run are bigger than a roadside drainage ditch, but we def. got lots of eddys

and don't you guys try to tell me that CO is on the west coast

[Larry Horne]

I don't fully understand the "people don't have the flatwater canoe exposure" logic...

simple. if you have never seen a canoe. what would possibly make you want to paddle one?
c1 are even less known around here. lots of paddlers don't even know what one is.
there's essentially no slalom scene

the point earlier about lack of dealers is a good point. The way i found whitewater canoes was because a local outdoor gear shop had a h2pro hanging in the window and i asked what it was for.... otherwise i would have never had a clue.
there used to be a guy selling mohawk as well. but, well.....

[DougB]

I'm not from the west coast, but here in Ontario every OC1 paddler I know has a canoe tripping background. WW OC1 paddling is the next step that some choose to take.

I also beleive in Paddle Power's comment that in general canoeing is less popular than kayaking because of the level of skill required. It's much easier to learn to kayak especially when you don't know canoeing basics.

[Cheeks]

Is it that much harder? I think sometimes we talk up the difficulty to make it more than it actually is. From a marketing the sport perspective, I'm not sure that's the best course of action for introducing new people into the sport.

I'd be interested to hear from Jeremy, Wayne, and other kayaking converts to see if canoeing is that much more difficult. I've always maintained that it's harder to go straight in a canoe, but that a canoe can make some things easier, like onside bracing.

[truckeeboater]

Personally, I feel that as an educated whitewater community it may be more valuable for us to begin moving away from generalizing the paddling "out west". I've experienced that the rivers up and down the East Coast and in Canada and even the Upper Mid-west vary greatly in personality, degree of difficulty, temperature of water etc., and obviously the same is true out here west of Ol' Miss. The rivers in Idaho are of course different from those in Washington, Oregon, and especially those here in California. I think it's more a question of geography/geology. Sure there are plenty of runs in the high elevations of Colorado that may be stout class IV with very few eddies to empty out in, but (for one example) the Lower Klamath in Northern California may very well be the ultimate training ground for aspiring open boaters: fantastic road access, boring to mellow to hairball runs can be found just a few miles from each other in a low elevation, warm water environment that is steeped in California history. AND, the awesome folks at Canoe West have been running educational programs for kids' groups and individuals for over 25 years. If no-one here on this forum has had the pleasure of meeting and/or paddling with Neil Rucker, you are seriously missing out. The man is truly one of the gurus of open boating in our country, and we're very fortunate to have him here in California!

Let's try to start being a bit more specific as to what "out west" really means, and we may begin to find some areas where we all actually agree !

[Smurfwarrior]

My thoughts...
Buying habits- Kayakers are much more likely to look at an online catalog, and just order a boat without demoing it where canoeists seem to want to demo every boat out there before choosing. Maybe we are a more refined breed with more selective tastes.. yeah, ok we know we are.. The only boat I've ever demo'd prior to buying was my first Outrage from a dealer in southern NH in the early 90's who had a little pond behind his shop.. I think people should just do the research, pick a boat and then order it. If you don't like it, sell it and get different one. That then increases the number of used boats on the market in your area. Tough sell, I know... but its how used boats get on the market, SOMEONE had to buy it new. Stocking a fleet of demo's is cost prohibitive for a small dealer too.. I'm looking at setting up a shop out here and stocking boats to sell and demo and its not a pretty picture.

West difficulty.. bigger water, less eddies and kayakers who bomb down it without stopping... the last bit being the most annoying to me since I'm normally the only open boater in the group. I have pumps in all my boats so it makes the lack of eddies not really an issue.. some runs out here are permitted and you have to have a pump or bailer.. like Westwater at high flow (30k or so) you get 4.5 miles of steep walled canyon with very little place to get out. I don't think its more difficult, just has a different character. Much less constant horizon line stuff..

[AJ]

We have a some canoeists in Colorado, but not like back East. Several of our crew have switched to C1 conversions recently, including myself. I still have a sweet wood gunnel Ocoee and Probe 14 for traditional OC-1 paddle days, but they do not get much use.

C1s are just easier to store, carry, roll, boof and paddle through continous whitewater. For me, it is just more fun bashing holes, boofing, surfing and not worrying about catching eddies to dump. And, it is safer and just easier to keep up with our K1ers, when paddling harder water.

OC-1s are expensive and you really want a dry suit in Colorado. Also, Royalex boats just don't hold up out here. The guys I know that paddle Royalex, are always having to repair them. I paddle too much to worry about fixing boats all the time, at least we have PE OC-1 options now.

Our team trys to promote canoeing at pool sessions and on the river, but not to many converts. There are two canoe clubs that I know of, Rocky Mountain Canoe Club and Poudre Paddlers. I was a member of RMCC many years ago and met some very good whitewater paddlers, but the club now is really more into multiday easier water river trips versus whitewater.

There really is only one canoe reseller in Colorado, Canoe Colorado. CC really does nothing to promote whitewater canoeing. They carry some whitewater canoes, but they are more into tripping canoes and sea kayaks for flatwater rivers.

As mentioned in other posts, another reason for a limted number of canoeists in Colorado, the canoe manufacturers put little effort in promoting and selling canoes in Colorado. They really need to get a bigger reseller on board like Colorado Kayak Supply. I know CKS has expanded into the SUP market. It seems like some of the older kayakers that are stepping it down are messing around with SUPs. It seems like SUP paddlers would be good potential Cboat converts? At least they are using one blade.

The Dawson private school still has a canoe program, but it is limited to their students. Chris Weigand and Nate Lord, may still offer kid's canoe programs, but not sure?

I have a great amount of respect for our OC-1 buds. I see them carrying around those heavy boats, hitting their sterns, navigating tight lines, and trying to roll them in the meat, their bad butt.

So....if any of you Cboaters are coming to Colorado to paddle III-IV, please feel free to contact me. I would be glad to include you in our paddle plans, if it works in your schedule.

BTW, my Skeeter is still for sale in Colorado

Cheers,

[TheKrikkitWars]

High volume runs expose the inefficiency of single blade propulsion. Add a big whole in the top and Idaho class three doesn't look like much fun anymore. Also, most canoers can't roll.

I'd argue that it's not the ineffciency of single blade propulsion, but the lack of an effective off side recovery combined with the propensity of high volume runs to throw boats around that makes it more difficult for a one bladed craft.

[RodeoClown]

Is it that much harder? I think sometimes we talk up the difficulty to make it more than it actually is. From a marketing the sport perspective, I'm not sure that's the best course of action for introducing new people into the sport.

I agree. I spent plenty of time spinning around in circles when I started kayaking, and I've watched plenty of other people do the same when they first started kayaking.

I think people should just do the research, pick a boat and then order it. If you don't like it, sell it and get different one. That then increases the number of used boats on the market in your area. Tough sell, I know... but its how used boats get on the market, SOMEONE had to buy it new.

I also agree

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

No, C-1 is certainly not more popular out West, though Pierre La Paddelle is trying to change that!

Thanks for the nudge, Pat.

Coming from a small community in the Interior of BC, my buddy and I decided, many years ago, that if we didn't thump the tub, promote the sport, and coerce folks into C-boats (open, decked, whatever), we literally wouldn't have anyone to paddle with.

This thread is a good eye-opener. Sure, there's enough reasons to write a Masters' Thesis on why people DON'T C-boat in the west. Bottom line is -- paddlers die, move away, take up making mud-pies in lieu of paddling, or use their boats for planters.

The point is, if you don't feed the sport at the bottom end, you'll eventually get pretty lonely on the river. For our sport to survive, much less thrive, we all have to take some interest in promoting, as well as paddling.

The items listed in this thread are challenges, not impenetrable barriers. Personally, I'm gonna do my best to bring some noobies to WESTFEST. Hope to see you there! Bring an extra boat, and a noob to paddle it!

Rick

[RJohnson]

Kayakers to Canoers are curt
But it only covers a hurt.
For Canoers , at will,
Keep water out with their skill
and Kayakers depend on a skirt!

[truckeeboater]

Kayakers to Canoers are curt
But it only covers a hurt.
For Canoers , at will,
Keep water out with their skill
and Kayakers depend on a skirt!

Awesome!