Wood gunnels?

[Bob Wiggins]

I'm sorry if this has been aske before, but as has been said, the search function ain't worth much. How do you replace vinyl gunnels with wood? Specifically, intalling th wood ones. Grain orientation? Size? Shape? Anyone have a write up on it? Any help would be much appreciated. If it makes a difference, I'm looking at doing it on a royalex boat.
Thanks in advance,
Bob

[Bob P]

Sometimes a site-specific Google search works better...

search link

[Sir Adam]

That's the first search function complaint here I think I've ever heard actually....

One trick is to realize that folks spell things differently - you'll need to search gunnel and gunwale at the very least....

Or just ask again. That works too:)

[Bob Wiggins]

That's the first search function complaint here I think I've ever heard actually....

i SWEAR there was a thread a few weeks ago about how it didn't really work that well, and that was why so many people asked the same questions over and over...

One trick is to realize that folks spell things differently - you'll need to search gunnel and gunwale at the very least....

Or just ask again. That works too:)

i did try the different spellings. as to the second part- that's why i decided to ask again- i didn't think too many people would mind. i just got a free ash board the perfect size and grain for gunnels, and after hearing so many times about the benefits (lighter weight, awesomer looks, more style. oh, and a faster boat, you know... ) decided i would look at giving it a shot.

[2opnboat1]

Couple of problems with this.

The holes on the vynal gunnels are lower then the ones on the wood.
East fix install wood ones covering the original holes and cut the boat to get rid of the exposed royalex.oat


Why. I understand wood looks better and feels better but it is not as strong and requires to much maintance. And if you are going to creek in the boat you will break them.

Why make more work for your self

[Bob Wiggins]

well, i'm going to have to replace the gunnels on this boat anyway. just to be clear- this is for a friends ocoee, which he wants me to help him repair- it has several problems. it also would probably become "mine"- his, but i would be the person who used it most of the time, if you know what i mean. i could get some vinyl gunnels- i have a source for them- but figured i might as well look at wood.

[arhdc]

Hey Bob,

There are others here that are better equipped to answer this but I'll give it a try.

The wood vs vinyl gunwale debate rages on. Basically it boils down to personal preference on this one, some swear by wood and some hate it. Note that on a Roylex boat you can get into trouble with wood in really cold water (not so much of an issue in North Carolina I know) because it doesn't expand and contract as much as the Roylex. I don't think this is an issue with PE and it is not an issue with composites.

NOW, to answer your question:

I would go 3/4"x3/4" for inners and 5/8"wide by 3/4" deep for outers. You can make them the same inside and out but this saves a little bit of weight and looks better to most to make the outer ones thinner. On commercially made wood gunwales they will often leave a lip along the top so that the wood caps the sidewall of the boat. This is much harder to do and purely cosmetic in my opinion. I would place screws 6-8" apart (pick a spacing and stick to it) and run them inside to out unless there is not enough clearance to do this (like at the ends). Look at the grain of the wood, depending on how it is sawed will determine how you want the grain orientated. You want the longest grain running parallel to the boat when viewed from the side because this is the face that is going to be most stressed in bending. If you are going to need to make any really tight bends, like at the ends, you may want to use a heat gun to pre-bend the wood to approximately the correct shape by heating it with a heat gun. I screwed two blocks of wood to a table to be able to apply the bending tension wile heating the wood. With the heat gun be careful to heat the wood just enough to soften it a bit. If it starts to char it is getting too hot.

I think that it is easier to shape the wood before bending. The simplest way is with a nice sharp hand plane followed by sanding. Take your time and it comes out nice. The inner edges that touch the boat should be left square.

When you drill your holes for the screws it is nice to use a countersink bit with a collar that you can set to give the correct depth without drilling the whole way through the outer gunwale remembering that the holes should be deeper than the ends of the screws. Lots of good clamps help hold things in place. Start at one end and work one hole and then screw at a time to the other end so that you keep everything tight. You may want to measure the hole spacing on the inner gunwales before installing them because it is hard to measure once you get things bent.

I'm sure that I am forgetting something here but it is something to start with if you want to go with wood gunwales. Feel free to ask if you have more questions.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Couple of problems with this.

The holes on the vynal gunnels are lower then the ones on the wood.
East fix install wood ones covering the original holes and cut the boat to get rid of the exposed royalex.oat


Why. I understand wood looks better and feels better but it is not as strong and requires to much maintance. And if you are going to creek in the boat you will break them.

Why make more work for your self

Ok, so you have to oil and sand occasionally; But I just don't buy that vinyl is tougher or stronger than a hardwood with close, straight grain.

Anacdotally I managed to shatter my vinyl gunnels into a sharp jagged mess with a fast glancing impact, having replaced them with European Ash i've taken similar hits just losing a little scrape of wood.

I did try to get the Stress-Strain curve for a sample of Ash so I could calculate the modulus of resiliance (a numerical measure of how tough something is) but it's not readily available on the net; The fact that you don't see many Vinyl baseball bats should speak for itself in this regard though...

[Bob Wiggins]

I would be interested to see a discussion of the advantages of wood vs vinyl in regards to strength, etc. I was always of the impression that overall they were about equal, but each had its weaknesses.

[2opnboat1]

Ohh I agree would is stronger when it is fresh on the boat. After a season of hard use then laying out in the rain all winter
the wood is going to be weak. Ye
s vynal gunnels break but not from getting wet and staying wet.

[eddyhops]

Ohh I agree would is stronger when it is fresh on the boat. After a season of hard use then laying out in the rain all winter
the wood is going to be weak. Ye
s vynal gunnels break but not from getting wet and staying wet.

How much would wood a wud chuk chuck if a would chuk cood chuck would???

[youngwillyd]

Why wood anybody leave thar canoe out int he rein all winter??

[cheajack]

Well, I think there are wood gunnels and then there are wood gunnels. Same goes for vinyl. People in the south that have regunneled boats with local ash have been disappointed in the results. I think it is because of the longer growing season. Canadian or at least northern ash has a much closer grain and is more dense. My Dagger Ocoee's vinyl gunnels were vinyl clad aluminum and were very strong. The vinyl gunnels on my Bell Ocoee were just flimsy pieces of plastic.

[sbroam]

I've had vinyl / aluminum gunwales bend and stay that way (Viper, Intrepid). I've had Ash bend and snap back (ME, twice). I've had Ash bend and snap (twice). I'm planning on putting ash on my Zephyr and Interlude (flatwater boat) for the weight and aesthetics - neither are going to be abused (stored inside, I'll maintain them, and won't subject them to impacts/stress). I'm going to put some new vinyl on one of our "fleet" boats because it gets abused (weather and impact)...

New question - what's the best way to remove rivets from to take existing vinyl gunwales off?

[dafriend]

New question - what's the best way to remove rivets from to take existing vinyl gunwales off?

A nice sharp drill with a diameter slightly larger than the shaft of the rivets. Drill on the folded end just until the folded/compressed end is cut away.
Dave