Pump or no pump?

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:36 pm

I still don't think a pump is worthwhile in a small creek boat. In a large boat that you plan to run big water in, maybe.
I can pull over in an eddy full of water, roll my Option, and be left with about 4 inches left. With that much water it paddles basically the same as it does empty, which is good enough to get to the next place to dump out.

And what is all this talk about slowing the group down? Are you all racing every time you boat?

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:09 pm

TNbound wrote:And what is all this talk about slowing the group down? Are you all racing every time you boat?

Well you wouldn't stop and just casually have a chat in an eddy for no reason would you? Time spent not paddling downstream is time you could have on the next river of the day...

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:16 pm

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
TNbound wrote:And what is all this talk about slowing the group down? Are you all racing every time you boat?
Well you wouldn't stop and just casually have a chat in an eddy for no reason would you? Time spent not paddling downstream is time you could have on the next river of the day...

True, but I don't think the 15 seconds it takes to empty my boat is that big of a sacrifice. No more than the rest of the group occasionally stopping to scout, stretch, or answer a call of nature.

leclercraven · Post by **leclercraven** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:34 pm

TNbound wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:
TNbound wrote:And what is all this talk about slowing the group down? Are you all racing every time you boat?
Well you wouldn't stop and just casually have a chat in an eddy for no reason would you? Time spent not paddling downstream is time you could have on the next river of the day...

True, but I don't think the 15 seconds it takes to empty my boat is that big of a sacrifice. No more than the rest of the group occasionally stopping to scout, stretch, or answer a call of nature.

I just hate boating with people who are in a hurry all the time!

Let's slow down a little and enjoy it a bit more!

It doesn't have to be a friggin race!

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:48 pm

This discussion kind of reminds me of the difference between kayaker organized trips and canoeists organized trips here in the Pacific NW. The kayakers don't stop for lunch, the canoeists do. Our reasoning is we drive all the way to the river (say 1 to 2 hours each way), we might as well be on it as long as we can. Which is why we stop for lunch, eddy hop a lot, and play on a lot on surf waves. Many of our kayaking friends are more accustomed to faster runs. My wife and I always figure the play/work ratio should be one or greater. In other words, ideally time on the river should at least equal the amount of time spent driving there and back. Certain rivers are worth breaking that rule for, but still, while on the river, it makes sense to milk the time you're there.

leclercraven · Post by **leclercraven** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:02 pm

milkman wrote:This discussion kind of reminds me of the difference between kayaker organized trips and canoeists organized trips here in the Pacific NW. The kayakers don't stop for lunch, the canoeists do. Our reasoning is we drive all the way to the river (say 1 to 2 hours each way), we might as well be on it as long as we can. Which is why we stop for lunch, eddy hop a lot, and play on a lot on surf waves. Many of our kayaking friends are more accustomed to faster runs. My wife and I always figure the play/work ratio should be one or greater. In other words, ideally time on the river should at least equal the amount of time spent driving there and back. Certain rivers are worth breaking that rule for, but still, while on the river, it makes sense to milk the time you're there.

Bill M · Post by **Bill M** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:07 pm

Milkman, I strongly agree. Take time to smell the roses as it were. I try not to schedule river days as anything but river days. Whats the hurry.
Bill

avlclimber · Post by **avlclimber** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:21 pm

Yes, Yes. But i like to really work the river when I'm on it. I'm catchin' eddies, surfing everything, trying weird ferries, attempting moves i don't know if I can do. I love it. but it makes me one of the last paddlers to head downstream, and it tends to fill up your boat. Especially on a wide river, you use a surprising amount of time and energy getting to shore, getting out of your boat (and often into the water,) dumping, and paddling to catch up with your group.

Having pumps to me means more guilt-free river play time, I'm not holding anyone up, I have more energy at the end of the run to keep trying wild moves, and if I want to surf the hole directly above the monster rapid, I can go for it, because I don't have to worry that "I just dumped" or "I need to stay dry for this next line." You can always stall a sec or catch a quick eddy while your boat pumps out.

I can paddle conservatively and dry if I want (certainly a skill in it's own,) but I have that choice. And there are plenty of days you forget to charge or bring your battery and you get that "old school" experience. Ususally I'm surprised how dry I can keep the boat when I try, but sometimes it serves to remind me to have the pumps set up for the next trip.

--Z

kaz · Post by **kaz** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:25 pm

Never used a pump. Might as well paddle a kayak.

avlclimber · Post by **avlclimber** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:28 pm

Oh, and I have pumps in a Prelude and love it. With low volume, It pumps out in just a few secs. (especially after a quick roll.)

I use a high amp hour lead acid battery, no dry-boxes or any of that silliness, just an easy on/off connector and electrical tape. No problems with shorting, etc. lasts several river trips, charges easy, good longevity of the battery. I do have a float switch that mostly works well, and I like that I don't have to manually do the on/off thing.

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:02 pm

kaz wrote:Never used a pump. Might as well paddle a kayak.

Now we're talking. Kayak or C1.

Wiggins · Post by **Wiggins** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:39 am

I have pumps in all of my boats and love them. Half the time I don't need them even in big water, but for continuous runs, rescues, or gear chases they are great. Plus I find myself at the back of the group a lot because I take pictures and it is nice to not have to stop to dump out the boat when that happens.

Kyle

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:28 am

Yesterday we had a decent release on our local river for the first time in a long time and I took out the Spanish Fly - i wanted a stable friend and it was certainly warm enough to go open boating in shorts. But... big water + play + wide river = wasting precious daylight and energy. I don't get out near as much as I used to (though as the kids grow, hopefully that will change), so every minute counts. Looking at the waves at the top of our biggest rapid or the big breaking waves in the middle of the river with no handy rock to dump on, I found myself wishing I'd brought a c-1. Or a pump. Then I got that one perfect wave near the end of the run (with perfect eddy service) - glassy and just the right shape that the SF didn't take on a drop no matter how long I surfed. Still... a pump would have been nice... It's not a "get out of jail free card", you still have incentive to run dry.

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:22 pm

my least favorite thing about pumps is when you're talking to the guy next to you, and he flips on his pump and starts emptying his boat into yours.

Actually, I have nothing against pumps, but I'm too lazy to put one in my boat, remember to charge the battery, etc. I put one in my tandem boat, now I just need to find the battery for it.

If I'm worried about having to get in and out and dump fast or a lot or hold up the group or just don't want to deal with water in the boat on any given day, I'll paddle a kayak that day. I did yesterday, today I'm taking a canoe to try to keep the pace down.

Deb R · Post by **Deb R** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:49 pm

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
TNbound wrote:And what is all this talk about slowing the group down? Are you all racing every time you boat?
Well you wouldn't stop and just casually have a chat in an eddy for no reason would you? Time spent not paddling downstream is time you could have on the next river of the day...

Isn't that one of the reasons eddies exist???

I have a pump in my Zoom, and I put it there so I could learn to roll. I still can't roll. The pump is good for keeping me dry in challenging rapids--if I turn it on in anticipation of needing it, my run is usually drier than I expected (or else I'm swimming, and the pump is running away without me, but that wasn't my point...). Most of the time, though, the amount of water in my boat is annoying enough to pump out with a manual pump, but not deep enough for the battery pump to work.

Deb

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