removing old, broken outfitting.

[zappaddles]

Well, elbow grease was the winning formula for removing tenacious glue-doo from the ME. Water soaking help, paint thinner soaking helped, judicous use of MEK really helped but in the end I had to use a scraper and sand paper to get the adhesives off. I'll use gray paint to help hide the sanded areas. Oatey makes a plumbers hand cleaner that disolves ABS cement. On my next project I want to try some of that. I already know that it'll disolve vinyl but my thoughts are that since it's a viscous liquid it can be kept on areas to be cleaned w/o it running onto areas that do not need to be cleaned.
Zap

[oc1kev]

oh yeah, g flex for applying the new d ring correct?

I would prep the surface with some MEK (careful not to use too much as it WILL melt your hull) and then Stabond for the adhesive and it will be like the grip of God.

-also, if you can go find yourself some little 'rollers' so you can apply pressure to the D-ring once it's down to make it a good solid contact..

and now that it's cooling off, you'll want to probably use a hair-dryer on the surface of the hull where you're going to do the glueing to warm it up just a bit -not too hot though, just to help the chemical bond take better.

[kilroywashere!]

oh yeah, g flex for applying the new d ring correct?

I would prep the surface with some MEK (careful not to use too much as it WILL melt your hull) and then Stabond for the adhesive and it will be like the grip of God.

-also, if you can go find yourself some little 'rollers' so you can apply pressure to the D-ring once it's down to make it a good solid contact..

and now that it's cooling off, you'll want to probably use a hair-dryer on the surface of the hull where you're going to do the glueing to warm it up just a bit -not too hot though, just to help the chemical bond take better.

ok, one question for you. I have a few pretty stout holes in the inner hull of my boat, one is down to the outer royalex layer, and the others area few layers down, will stabond help fix these or do i pretty much need to buy both?

and where can i find teh little rollers?

[pblanc]

oh yeah, g flex for applying the new d ring correct?

I would prep the surface with some MEK (careful not to use too much as it WILL melt your hull) and then Stabond for the adhesive and it will be like the grip of God.

-also, if you can go find yourself some little 'rollers' so you can apply pressure to the D-ring once it's down to make it a good solid contact..

and now that it's cooling off, you'll want to probably use a hair-dryer on the surface of the hull where you're going to do the glueing to warm it up just a bit -not too hot though, just to help the chemical bond take better.

ok, one question for you. I have a few pretty stout holes in the inner hull of my boat, one is down to the outer royalex layer, and the others area few layers down, will stabond help fix these or do i pretty much need to buy both?

and where can i find teh little rollers?

Stabond works well if the inner vinyl layer is missing where you want to bond your D ring. It bonds well to exposed ABS. If the inner vinyl layer is mostly intact, Vynabond will work.

G Flex also bonds well to ABS but you need to find a way to keep your ring from moving after you place it, and to apply just enough pressure to avoid voids in the epoxy until it cures.

You can buy an inexpensive, hand held roller with a plastic drum at many hardware stores. I have heard them referred to as "tile rollers" or "vinyl seam" or "carpet seam" rollers.

If I understand you correctly you have holes on the inside of your hull extending through the inner vinyl layer, through the inner solid ABS substrate layer and through the ABS foam core all the way to the outer solid ABS substrate layer? If so, no, you can't fill in those voids with Stabond. Years ago, I used to use 3M Scotch Weld 3532 urethane "structural" adhesive. Now I would use G Flex epoxy with a thickening agent like colloidal silica powder (Cab-o-sil) mixed in to fill the void of the missing foam core. You would need to apply several applications to completely fill the void and overfill it a little, then sand down the surface of the fill so that it is flush with the adjacent hull.

I have heard of folks using Gorilla Glue for this purpose, but I have no experience with it.

[oc1kev]

I have heard of folks using Gorilla Glue for this purpose, but I have no experience with it.

I've done extensive repair jobs basically rebuilding the inner foam core by using Gorilla Glue... the last
big patch job I did a few months ago, i documented each step with pictures of the whole process... I'll upload them somewhere and link them here.


-also, It's been my experience that vynabond used to hold Drings for knee-straps in my ABS boats never lasted more than half a season before they pulled up. (but I won't rule out the possibility of a poor installation on my part )

my experience with Stabond great, however.



When I've done large hull repairs, I've used (as mentioned above) gorilla glue to rebuild the core, but then covered it with S-glass and Kevlar-49, using slow-cure epoxy, which i picked up everything I needed for the repair from US Composites' website. -very affordable.

[pblanc]

My experience with using vinyl adhesive to bond vinyl D ring patches to Royalex boats seems to be much better than that of a lot of folks here. I'm not sure the reason why, however. I do accept the likelihood that the bond will break down at some point, but for me that doesn't happen for years. I don't get to paddle nearly as frequently as I would like these days, so perhaps I am subjecting my rings to less stress, but the same was true for me even in past years when I was able to get out frequently.

When patches bonded with vinyl adhesive start to come loose, I find it is usually a simple matter to peel off the patch after warming it with a heat gun a little and this leaves the vinyl layer of the Royalex intact. It is usually possible to reuse the same patch after cleaning it up a little with MEK or acetone. Despite the need to occasionally rebond patches with vinyl adhesive, I prefer it for the very reason that you can nearly always remove the patch without damaging the Royalex.

Why would you want to remove the patch? Well, if you are re-outfitting the boat for a different person or find that your initial knee and thigh strap anchor placement is suboptimal, or you find that the pedestal placement is not right and need to shift everything forward or back is one scenario. Another is when the stitching holding the D ring or anchor to the patch gives out (which has happened to me) or a metal D ring becomes so badly rusted or corroded that you can't stand it any more (which has also happened to me).

I doubt that I have any secret formula for using vinyl adhesive but for what it is worth, this is what I do:

After marking the patch placement on the hull with pencil or a Sharpie I lightly sand the vinyl layer of the Royalex with sandpaper of 120-150 grit. Anything coarser may cut through the vinyl layer causing lacerations that will then make it more likely for the vinyl to strip off if the patch ever needs to be removed. I then clean the hull surface and the bottom of the patch with acetone. Vinyl adhesive needs to be applied evenly to both surfaces - patch and hull - and then allowed to degas a bit before approximating the two. You can either wait 10 - 20 minutes (depending on temperature) or gently warm the patch and hull with a heat gun or hair drier before approximating the patch. Actually, I like to warm the surfaces a bit even if it looks like the adhesive has degassed completely. Immediately after laying down the patch, I thoroughly roller it with a hand-held roller.

It is best not to try to bond with vinyl adhesive during conditions of very high humidity.

[Longboatin]

wow from ur description i can say for certain those drings are glued in with JBWeld. that must be a former Lengthy boat or at least outfitted at tussey Mtn outfitters. the holes with mushroomed weld are dead giveaway, those guys are the only ones i know that glue them that way. I say stiff putty knife or scraper, pound evenly between and should pop off, be careful not to get between the weld and the vinyl skin of the boat, it can and will tear.

[pblanc]

I thought JB Weld cured to a black color. Not so, Dan?

[Longboatin]

well there are at least three types of JB, regular cure, 5 min, and an underwater type. the standard mixes up and drys gray. the other types I have not used, perhaps those are different.

[kilroywashere!]

ok, waiting to work on the old d ring until i get some help from a buddy with some chemicals and whatnot, for now im working on the hole, i just put a bit of gorilla glue in it and its expanded, going to cover it with g flex when i get it.

thinking about putting a strip of fiberglass mesh over the outside of the hull and gluing it down with more g flex, will that really do anything?

[mahyongg]

Time for a Bulkhead.. mine is completely glue-free and held down by a thwart (bulkhead only, saddle is glued down w/ flexible contact adhesive..) ;D