skinless mini-cell

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:06 am

I knew there were the two stiffnesses of the same density, I am just trying to give an accurate label to the right foam, so that I know for future reference, and so I can know what I like. hmm, All I want is to have the grey stuff in. humbug.
Skaal
-isaac

jim gross · Post by **jim gross** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:05 pm

outfit and paddle your boat for you on the james. I just love puttin the first scratch in a new boat .specialy one as flashy and new as yers. JIM

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:50 pm

jim gross wrote:I just love puttin the first scratch in a new boat .specialy one as flashy and new as yers. JIM

Jim, thanks for the offer & the compliment. Martin & Gwyn did build a pretty flashy boat

But, this being my first new boat in over a decade and it being the first boat that I've ever had built, I think I want to put the first scratch on her, but not real soon.

They say that when you buy a new pick-up you should get in the bed & beat it with a big hammer. If I subscribed to that theory, I'd take the new Sith to Falls dam or the Nantahala early in her life. Since I think that theory is just plain goofy, my '97 pick-up has no dents in the bed & my Sith will see neither Falls dam, nor the Nantahala. It will see the James though

I'll let you know when I get it outfitted.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:18 pm

Mike, please keep us updated, that is one of the few non-slalom composite boats I have been seriously looking as as soon as I caqn afford one..., after all this racing stuff is paid off...
anyhow, Hope all goes well with that, and I am very excited to hear your opinion of the boat.
-isaac

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:39 pm

If you want to keep that new hull shine (as well as some of the cloth on the bottom) you may want to wait till 6' before bringing it up to the James.

Post by **PAC** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:53 pm

So mshelton how's that new green weenie (sith) of yours? Have you had it out on the James, or something else yet?
More importantly...have you let Squeaks in it yet?

Paul C.

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:17 pm

Cracked it across the bow 3rd time out, I got in the big wave of Pipeline, got pearled out into a bow stall, washed down and hit a rock (didn't think I hit it to hard) and it left me with a crease on both seams and some splinters up by the grab loop.

The boat has been retired to eddy goofing only status.

jim gross · Post by **jim gross** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:45 pm

So much for durabity. When i spoke with the guys about their layup and theory in the layup they promote i wasn,t feeling as though i agreed with it. Glass boats must be able to handle impacts , that is figured into the layups chosen. If i were to have soime one build me a boat , I would dictate the layup. TRoo bad , sorry it broke. Even a repair layup should hold. JIM

Post by **PAC** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:11 pm

Bummer on the breakage. Maybe hit it at stress point. Glass boats are a bugger at times - requiring a different approach to paddling them and a "mr. fix it" state of mind. I'm sort of surprised too because the boats I paddled (sith (3x) and pagan) both seemed very solid, at least to me (and I "touched" few rocks...sorry Martin, Bill)! But then I was on the Lower Yough and not the James (having never paddled the james). How did you like it up until that point?
Here to hoping you get'er fixed and get back out there asap!
Paul C.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:15 pm

If I understand where it broke, and the way it broke, I'm not TOO surprised. I think if you had had an Acrobat, or any other boat with similar bow or stern end shape in there and subjected it too those forces it would have broke as well. The REALLY nice thing about glass, vs. plastic, is that once patched it may be uglier, but the patch area is often stronger then the area around it:)

Some S-glass, a bit of Kevlar, and some WEST systems Epoxy and you'll be in good shape in no time. If you want to make the finish easier, get some peel-ply (nylon cloth) as well.

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:17 pm

Jim, I don't think it could really be a durability issue. The cracks are on the deck and top part of the seams, the hull is fine, heck you can't hardly tell where the blow was that caused the damage.

Adam, I'll probably do what your talking about to fix it, my concern is what to do about the seam tape area. If I should sand it down and replace that area of tape or just put another layer of tape over top of it. The front grab loop will probably become a causality of the repair. My main concern is to repair it so that it doesn't happen again. The blow was on the hull at the end of the bow and it caused the deck to fold up. I'm wondering if another layer or 2 of S-glass will be enough to stiffen that area up, along with the seam repairs, so that it won't crack again. Also what's this nylon peel-ply cloth you speak of?

PAC, it's a fun boat but not something I would make my everyday boat. There are very few features around here that I can actually get on and surf with it due to it's length and the hull just doesn't seem very loose. Also being in pushy water with 4' of boat underwater just isn't something I would want to do a lot of. I enjoy the short boats better where I can just flick whatever end or edge out of the current when it starts getting pushed then not need the speed a longer boat has to get me back to where I want to be. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not bashing the boat at all, for some features is cool as heck, slow cartwheels and I can finally hold a stern squirt down. I'm learning some other neat stuff to with the boat, it's just that it's more of a novelity boat for me. One thing I do wish the boat had is the wider area behind the paddlers butt like the Groove, Acrobat, Wheelboy, and other C1s have. Just that bubble type bit of volume back there that allows you to use it as a pivot or focal point for moves and recoveries. Overall though I'm looking forward to having fun with it when there is enough water.

Post by **PAC** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:49 pm

I agree I don't think it’s durability issue its just part of paddling glass.. Most of us have been there!

As for the seam tape area sand it down and replace that area works best (looks best too). You can stiffen it but you might want to add more internal support too (more mini cell). I'm thinking kevlar base and s-glass cover layer but others will know better. Look to see if anyone you know has Charlie Walbridge boat building book. I'd ship you my copy but its MIA right now and unaccounted for.

Or have PS Composites rework it for you to get it looking perfect.

Glad to hear you like the boat - I was tempted to get one but can't justify the $ (right now). I found it rocked on the rivers I paddle - narrower and deeper I'm thinking.

As for the wider area be hidden the paddler.. I'm not going there…. LOL. I think the more you paddle it the more you'll dial into it. So enjoy!

Keep us posted on the repairs. Paul C.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:39 pm

Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat marshall. My Sith holds up really well, the only small crack it developed so far 2 years of hard use, it's the boat I paddle most, was due to operator error, i.e. a friend of mine strapped it down on the roof while I was not looking (he was literally hanging off the strap to tighten it

, and the lad wheighs almost 200 lbs... ). A bit of cloth and resin fixed the damage, one can barely see it. You might want to get in touch with Martin or Gwyn about the damage, they might have some suggestions on how to fix it.
As far as the handling goes, he way you describe it your trm may be a bit off. The Sith seems to be REALLY sensitive to that, I found that for me even lass than 1/2" changes in position or wheter I pack my lunch (usually no more than a few power bars) in the bow or the stern had quite a significant effect on its handling.

Cheers!

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:26 pm

PAC wrote:As for the wider area be hidden the paddler.. I'm not going there…. LOL.

I figured I'd get a crack or 2 on my comment there, I've been spoiled by the Bigboy for a long time now. Unfortunately it's become the boat I compare everything to now. Heck, I should just go to PS and see how much money I would have to fork over and if they would build something similar.

I did contact the Shaggy guys, they said they would take a look at it but with the distance between up I figured it would be best if I just repaired it myself.

martin wrote:a friend of mine strapped it down on the roof while I was not looking (he was literally hanging off the strap to tighten it

Jeesh, That would take a lot of beer to make up for.

Post by **sbroam** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:46 pm

mshelton wrote:
martin wrote:a friend of mine strapped it down on the roof while I was not looking (he was literally hanging off the strap to tighten it
Jeesh, That would take a lot of beer to make up for.

Back in the day, my original C-boating mentor saved up and upgraded from his trusty "Gyro-Pig" - he bought a composite boat called a Magnet, I think Andy Bridge may even have built it. It was sweet. Anyhow, whenever we were loading up, you could count on hearing "dam hoss, don't hulk it down - it's glass!" at least once. I have to say that under my breath at least once when tying on one of my glass boats just for old times sake.

C-Forum

skinless mini-cell

well mike since you got to work this week end how bout we

Re: well mike since you got to work this week end how bout w

broken sith

Patch it up!!