Opinion on pumps....

watrwzrd · Post by **watrwzrd** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:14 am

I like em, got one in every boat.See that big hole well hey go hit it heheh

kanur · Post by **kanur** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:44 pm

I don't have one yet but I am going to. It will be great for creeks to not have to dump after a drop only to fill it up again 20 yards later.

wetnobby · Post by **wetnobby** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:56 pm

V1250 + Gell battery + Zoom = Fun....
Anything that reduces the weight of water in a boat is a huge plus.
Not just from comfort angle but from a safety view point....
A boat full of water is a liability in a technical rapid.....anything that can ease the situation is worthwhile.....
Even with a very full boat a few seconds in an eddy or hesitation and it is managable again...
I cant understand why anyone would not want one....

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:48 pm

when someone put a motor on a highglider, they stopped calling it such... it became a ultralight

when Leo Fender and Les Paul put the juice to a guitar, it became known as an "ELECTRiC GUITAR"

when the motor came off an airplane, it became a glider or sail plane

doesn't it kinda make a open canoe... something more akin to submarine'ing

just seems to make the 'Noble Canoe' a little less noble ...

kinda like cheating...
like admitting defeat ...
or going to the dark side

the winning at all cost crowd ...

for me it would be saying

I"M JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Randy Dodson · Post by **Randy Dodson** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:37 pm

philcanoe wrote:when someone put a motor on a highglider, they stopped calling it such... it became a ultralight

when Leo Fender and Les Paul put the juice to a guitar, it became known as an "ELECTRiC GUITAR"

when the motor came off an airplane, it became a glider or sail plane

doesn't it kinda make a open canoe... something more akin to submarine'ing

just seems to make the 'Noble Canoe' a little less noble ...
kinda like cheating...
like admitting defeat ...
or going to the dark side the winning at all cost crowd ...

for me it would be saying I"M JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH

While I can see your points here, we also need to remember that some kayakers say that we've already started cheating by filling the entire boat with airbags and foam. All that floatation makes it possible to run the hard stuff. What water does go into the boat, we're going to empty it. Pumps just make it easier, just like airbags and foam make it easier to run hard WW.

So if we're cheating or if we've admitted defeat, we did it when we started paddling short highly rockered boats made of ABS and polyethelene, filled to the gunnels with as much floatation as we could.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:48 pm

ditto...

i took mine out ... learned to paddle to Ocoee, with out bags ... and then put'em back in; after learning how to make all the moves without them ...back when the it use to run 1600

Dave C · Post by **Dave C** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:07 am

The good ones have no problem navigating anything without help to get the H2O out. Those of us who are mortal like any help we can get so we can keep up with the decked boaters we paddle with.

Actually, I swing both ways. I've got two boats with pumps (both Whitesells) and two without.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:22 pm

My mentality says whatever keeps us drier, higher and safer far outweighs ego, stubborness and dangerous.

Craig.

Dave C · Post by **Dave C** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Indubitably

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:06 pm

I put one in my boat for playing. It sure beats having to wallow over to the bank and dump after a hole ride. For running drops, I still shoot for staying dry, and if I have to bail at the bottom (whether via pump, dump or bucket), I figure I screwed up somewhere.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:40 pm

runnin the dry line??????

What are you a bunch of butt boater who can control you boat well enought to place it on the seam, by the edge, thread the needle ?

The best thing about not havin a pump is that any pod you got stuck with on the river will get tried of waitin on you to dump and leave you, which is a good thing.

The reason butt boater wear a skirt is so that when they blow thier line and drop in the meat of the hole they can smile and act like they ment to do it.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:27 pm

To me, an important part of canoeing is getting away from having to use electricity or gasoline. (Let's not talk about getting to the water, that's the ugly high carbon footprint-side of our sport. I already feel plenty guilty about that).

I don't want a motor in my boat. Airbags, floatation, a bailer or hand pump, are all fine with me, but a switch and the whir of a motor aren't the poetry I'm looking for out on the water. Might as well throw in a generator and the TV.

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:04 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:My mentality says whatever keeps us drier, higher and safer far outweighs ego, stubborness and dangerous.

Then why aren't we ALWAYS in a decked boat, wearing a skirt, using 2 blades? Because we all have, to more or less a degree, some stubborness and ego. If you deny it, I'll call you a liar.

I'm playing devil's advocate. Boating is a sport of personal satisfaction, so what satisfies is completely subjective. I really have no problem with anyone experimenting or using anything that helps them enjoy boating more, keeps the sport progressive, and may draw new faces to the sport.

When microjets are fitted into boats to give boaters that little extra umph for a boof or hard ferry, or to help with the lake paddle, I'll feel the same way... but I probably won't be able to shake the feeling that something is being lost, and I think that is the crux of the biscuit.

Where does "canoeing" end and another type of boating begin? This is becoming quite the philosophical hot spot, almost like a religous debate, or even bigger--- like the "leftie/rightie" thread (which I see both sides for what they are worth, pun intended. BTW, you folks controlling the paddle with just one hand are a strange lot, I use BOTH hands to control my paddle

)

PERSONALLY, I believe "canoeing" is a skill, appreciation, concept, as well as a desire to understand these... not a setup or style of boat. That being said, the setup and style of boat have direct influence on the skill, appreciation, and concept.

bald1 · Post by **bald1** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:11 pm

I am a butt boater most of the a lot of the time. But I love to c-boat too.

For me c-boating is about the challenge of running a line well with only one blade in a boat that is more of a challenge to put exactly where I need it.

Bailing is something that is done after the fact. It doesn't detract from the challenge of paddling a canoe through the rapid well.

I see good open boaters run dry lines all the time while I fill my Rodeo to the brim. My pump doesn't give me any advantage to actually running the rapid it just helps after the fact and occasionally helps me be safer in the rapid. My goal is to paddle the lines well and preferably dry.

I don't see pumps as cheating any more than royalex or airbags. Or drysuits for that matter, should we all wear wool and freeze again.

Give me a drysuit, airbags and a pump. One thing I know for sure is while these things have added safety and comfort, they have not made me a better paddler.

squeakyknee · Post by **squeakyknee** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:13 pm

wetnobby wrote:V1250 + Gell battery + Zoom = Fun....
:

TWO V1250's + Gellcell + Zephyr = superfun and PLAY PLAY PLAY!!!
Love em!

C-Forum

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