One more thing... the dates for Nationals were opened up a few years back so the race could be held at other times of the year other than the dead of summer when the only water running is dam controlled. This was done so that potential race sites could host the Nationals on natural flow on other rivers around the US and Canada when they actually had water and weren't constrained by the June-August timeline.
Part of the reason some of us lobbied for this was that many of us also like to make our trips to Nationals more than just hanging out at a race course for the weekend and we actually like get out on some other regional rivers before and after the race as long as you are in an area you normally don't get to see.
If you look at the race sites for Nationals in the past ten years... the vast majority have been on dam controlled runs. Dam controlled is nice for racing because you get consistent levels from day to day... but as a group I feel we are limiting ourselves by doing the same old thing... over and over.
I realize Wausau is quite ideal because it's centrally located for everyone that typically attends... but there are other options that haven't been utilized. If the trend continues as it's been going we're going to have to start calling it the Annual Minden/Wausau Canoe Slalom Race.
Yes reducing classes would not bring in as much money for the organizer but with the price this year I will be laying down around $100 and that doesn't include gas, drive time and not working, so its not like its cheap as it is. If these races were all about money thats just not the idea, or shouldn't be. Is it about the paddling or the organizers. I agree and know that putting on a race, especially a big one costs money and takes a lot of time, and (I hope) everyone is thankful for the work put in. I am in complete agreeance with reducing classes but think 3 days is what it should be, it gives people a chance to rest, socialize and even help judge gates or do other things. Remember this is THE OC race and it should be big, or why would people travel great distances.
A small irony to this is... I just got home from another 2-1/2 hour brushing session on the course this evening so we can use some of our eddies again. That's 27 hours of brushing and pruning here and there in the past couple weeks... and I've just chipped the tip off the iceberg. Nationals is in a few weeks and there's loads of work to be done.
I don't know about how that site is run, but don't people pay to use that place on the weekends, where does that money go? Don't they have employees or members that would or could or should be doing that regularly? Just asking cuz I don't know, but it seems like fees for usage should go to maintenance of the park. Thanks for stepping up and cleaning house!
I also think it would be great to have the race at a different time of the year like january in SoCal
I think there are to many master classes, they should elimate length requirement for masters and have just one class for solo no matter what length or boat material rubber/class.
cbcboat wrote:I don't know about how that site is run, but don't people pay to use that place on the weekends, where does that money go? Don't they have employees or members that would or could or should be doing that regularly? Just asking cuz I don't know, but it seems like fees for usage should go to maintenance of the park. Thanks for stepping up and cleaning house!
B
There are six to eight 6-hour "rec-releases" annually... they don't "make" $$$
Frankly our goal is to try to "break even" on events... which is tough because we try give paddlers well more than their money's worth.
"Employees"? Yeah... Julie is our one underpaid and well overworked "employee". Other than that... it's all volunteers bud.
Hey I'm just asking ?'s. I would love to have Natioanls in MT again, however the site we used for 04 is now 'off limits' to large groups as apparently the large grass field that was used for parking is actually a Nature Conservancy easement..oops. Other than that unless everyone wants to paddle in Drysuits we could do it in the spring. As mentioned earlier in your post we only have natural flowing rivers so predicting waterflow is nothing but a guess, so we could have a really high flow race or a really low flow race, neither are ideal. we also have many environmental organizations to deal with as well as water flow. For what its worth all I personally care about is paddling and not a Tshirt or hat or even a dinner, don't get me wrong they are all great but to me not neccesary. When I came to Wausau in 07 I was very impressed which is why I am coming back, so you have done your job there. Sorry to hear that things are tough there, is it because people don't use it or because it costs too much to get water? Understand that I a not being negative towards how things work I'm just trying to understand.
For the record Craig is NOT my spokesperson, so there is no official bid in for MT
B
Yes we need to reduce classes.
A 2 day race format is also a good idea.
I think that the main thing we need to do for Nationals is finding an organization or club that is actually willing to put in a bid and follow it through, knowing about our requirements. That's the hard part. Nobody is willing to do it. There are many canoe clubs throughout the country. A race of this magnitude could bring in a lot of money for the hosting club.
How about one of the new race sites in Colorado?
How about the Ocoee site that was used for the Olympics?
Are there any rapids on the lower Yough below the usual takeout that are accessible?
I don't recall if those riffles/rapids would work for us but??? I feel the "Loop" would make an excellent spot for the downriver portion of the combined. Plus there's on-site camping at the school as well... but then again there's also that late night train that you think is coming right through your tent at two in the morning.
Plus... the Upper Yough is there... as well as the Big Sandy and a bajillion other things.
kaz wrote:...
How about the Ocoee site that was used for the Olympics?
...
Jkaz
From paddling the Olympic section of the Ocoee and going to the Nats on the Nantahala, I don't think that's a good venue. You'd see a lot of swimmers and boat damage. The "wilderness channel" on the Charlotte course (US "National Whitewater Center") would be a better choice. What I saw of ASCI, it is comparable, maybe better than the Charlotte course. None is a "natural" river by any means...
True about Decked boat races, but they are actually racing for something other than a number on a website, they are racing for a spot on the national team or a world cup or olympic gold, a bit different. The beauty of open boating is there are so many different types of boats to paddle, one can, as they say, wear many hats.
Heres my thoughts on classes, keeping race and rec but dropping masters and youth/senior, but keeping jr. in solo classes.
OC1 X- gotta have this one, because its the new trend in OC
Open
OC1 Rec- plastic only, less than 13'
Open
Jr.
Women
OC1 Rac- any material less than 13'
Open
Jr
Women
OC1 13'- anything 13' and longer any material, because it is fun to paddle longer boats too.
Open
Jr
Women
OC2- Rec- Plastic only, any length
Open
Jr
Women
Mixed
OC2- Rac- any length
Open
Jr
Women
Mixed
Combined- again my opinion is unless the course has WW make it a sprint through the course only for the 'downriver' portion
OC1- Any boat any length
Open
Women
Mixed
OC2- Any boat any length
Open
Women
Mixed
18 classes without the combined
24 classes w/ combined
Thats my thoughts, its not a huge cut from the norm but it does shed some pounds.
I also noticed that the citizens class has been dropped, or its not on the reg. form anyway. Is that option no more? cuz thats OK
just quick take
I guess 2 days would offer 1 more day of practice or clinics or just paddling for fun.
my 2 Cents
B
Reduce glasses with small changes would probably work better then big changes.
I'm not that convinced that reducing a few classes will reduce revenve from racers at the national level, if one goes about it with small changes. The National level should keep the seven event rule. Racers with the stamina will enter as many as they possibly can. When they increase it from five to seven some years ago, the tandem classes ended up will alot more racer, two in boat doubles your money. I also think about getting my money worth for the travel so, I'm going to paddle as many and would ever class is offered. I think alot of racer feel that way.
But then again I'm a paddler that doesn't mind paddleing both glass and rubber. I enjoy and prefer racing glass over rubbers.
Just dippin the gunwale to keep it wet.
If the question for Riversport was the yough. I had great time there when they had the salom national. The river was about 3 ft on the gauge and I'd only been paddling for a few years. I was kind of over my head in a Currier and swam in an ME.
I heard that Lousock, PA (not sure how to spell it) would be a good OC National Site. Not sure if its dam release thou.
About Riversport at the Yough. I forgot to mention the carry from finish to start fot he Slalom was realy hard. Walked along the river bank with big rock to up and over. So maybe not such a great site for those who carry heavy boats by them selves
About Classes,
Their pretty good, but I think different changes may work better.
I guess I shouldn’t mention removing master classes, back to give an inch, take a mile. I think if you remove all masters classes you may find some boater will never return or start the OC Slalom National seen. One Master class in solo and tandem could be considered a recruiting tool. Nice to have junior class, are there that many juniors that race.
You only need one solo class for Junior, any length, any material.
You only need one junior class for tandem, any length any material.
You should have a Sr./Jr class in slalom and combined any length, any material.
I like the ideas about no junior class for combined,
If you’re providing a class with boats as small as five feet, you really don't need an X class. As far as the trend goes the boats may be fun to rodeo in but they have fallen short of any kind of OK slalom type paddling, basically a waste of racing time which are some of the problems with available water time. If a short boat meets the qualification of another class it should race in that class. Use to be length prevent short boats so X class was invented. Some paddlers try and do for the most part push those type of boats through the slalom course, but it really is much fun watching, paddlers struggle with the course when the boat isn’t designed for slalom racing. Might give the spectator the wrong ideas about the sport.
I want to see creativity in speed and agility with OC river slalom not another slug floating down the race course. If you’re not going to allow artificial power to the X boats why have them at all.
The new trend for X boats are in rodeo, steep creeks, and waterfalls. Doesn’t seem to be slalom.
In the end if a class brings in a few more dollars for the event we should probably not eliminate all of them that attracted certain groups of paddlers. After all what makes the event are people coming to race. The more the merrier. Some of the sponsors have been great with their support over the years, but some race organizers still struggle with the finical commitment involve with a large event.
