Rescue PFD or Not? Suggestions?

Mike Gardner · Post by **Mike Gardner** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:10 pm

Stohlquist has a new rescue pfd the Descent.

http://www.stohlquist.com/dyn_prod.php? ... 11&k=29467

Similar design to Astral Green. I have an X-tract D that will be retired after this season. Very comfortable. Have used the hi and lo flotation MTI rescue pfds and liked them. They are due out soon.
Have also heard that Astral has a front zip recue pfd in the works.

To answer your question, I would say yes to the extra expense of a rescue pfd. There are non-rescue uses such as using the tether to clip on to your boat to keep it from floating away and not having to/ or needing to put it on shore or tie it off to a rock or brush or whatever

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:54 pm

Kind of a bit off the original post, but since discussing towing boats etc., I wanted to throw this out there. The first cascade I owned had a cleat on it for towing. It's been a few years, and I want to think it was one that sat somewhat sideways, but it was on the rear deck on my onside.

This site has several options, but it might be worth considering for getting gear out of the way. A quick attachment to the boat (not the paddler) and works well for hooking to the painter on someone else's boats.

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=15[/url]

horizongfx · Post by **horizongfx** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:11 pm

jscottl67 wrote:Kind of a bit off the original post, but since discussing towing boats etc., I wanted to throw this out there. The first cascade I owned had a cleat on it for towing. It's been a few years, and I want to think it was one that sat somewhat sideways, but it was on the rear deck on my onside.

This site has several options, but it might be worth considering for getting gear out of the way. A quick attachment to the boat (not the paddler) and works well for hooking to the painter on someone else's boats.

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=15[/url]

I have used a Jam cleat for my canoe painter and think it is a much smarter option than attaching someones boat to my Body.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:23 pm

I really appreciate all the info. I had a wake up call on my first swim in my "new" Rival several months ago. I was attempting to get a surf going in a small hole on a local river, got sideways, windowshaded and was floating next to the boat before I knew what happened. It's a very innocuous river, but I forgot one simple detail....the ONLY eddy to catch is immediately river right of the hole and I was halfway past it by the time I got my bearings straight. Missing this eddy means a long swim in a placid looking, but wide, deep, deceptively swift part of the river that disappears around a large shoal and into a huge pile of wood jammed up against old bridge piers. Compounding the problem was my PFD had crept up and I was floating with my chin in the water.

I'll spare the details except to say OC1 who came to help was unable to make any headway towing me (I was kicking as hard as i could) and the boat against the current and eventually I was offered a lift back to shore by a kayaker sans my boat because I was so exhausted, I puked after getting to dry ground.

The #1 lesson I took from that is I need to get the hades into shape; I'm not the strongest swimmer in the world and I don't want to draw people into my swims. #2 Lesson is an open boat can be damned hard to drag against current and #3 is I need to practice more swims/getting back into the boat/get training. #4, never, EVER wear neoprene booties with the ankles unzipped, they're like drag chutes attached to your feet.

All that said, I want to get the right PFD for the job. I don't ever want to rely on other folks to get my butt out of the frying pan, but if something does go wrong, I want to make it as easy/safe as possible for a kind soul to assist my sorry rear. And in time, gain the skills necessary to return the favor.

The Ronin looks *really* intriguing; it's on my list of PFDs to try.

Edit to add: ALL of my canoes have painters securely stowed. And I *always* carry a knife.

Phreon

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:04 pm

Phil, I'm not getting how you use this prussic loop. can you simplify for a dunce please?

YTcanoe · Post by **YTcanoe** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:59 pm

OK Lots of scary harness as towline stories.
A very important point I didn't mention is not to run the belt through the "friction loop/buckle thingy". Not doing this makes it just as safe as any towbelt.
Yes you then have to remember to use the friction thingy if you do a bait rescue, but in the two instances I've used mine (other than training), I've found myself to take the time and double check my rig as ropes and anchors were being set.

As the usual pigtail rigs are too short for most canoes, you may need to fabricate. The Northwater towbelt/small throwbag is a favorite as you can adjust tow length. (But use an asparagus elastic aroud the bag to back up the velcro and don't forget your longer dedicated throwbag). However in several of my boats, I find the belt in my way and use the harness.

Two Northern uses have been for frogging loaded canoes upstream and pulling floatplanes out of the muck.

My Overland to the Nahanni headwaters solo involved ascending Witham Creek, up stuff you wouldn't paddle down, waist deep needing both hands to grab boulders.

The floatplane incident was a great reminder for quick releases and not threading through the friction loop.
The pilot had bogged the 206 on a mud flat in the middle of Margaret Lake at the Firth headwaters. Paddles were useless.
I managed to dig out my Pfd with harness and a short throwbag. Unfortuneately, all wet gear was hopelessly buried. The jacket was all I was wearing when I jumped in.
Now my partner can attest that I very, very carefully went over the plan twice with the pilot. I would biner to the eyebolt on the tail, to the bag, to my harness and pull like a sled dog.
I needed both hands to help pull myself through the muck with a paddle. When I felt the plane free, I would unhook at my harness, and only when I raised and waved my paddle would he take off and reland at a better spot.

The instant the plane came free (leaving good slack, I hadn't even turned around), I heard the engine roar!
I must have gone 40 feet and skipped about twice before I found the release.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:35 pm

Mike Gardner wrote:Have also heard that Astral has a front zip recue pfd in the works.

The do already, the EN-spec GreenJacket. I beleve the USCG would only certify the non-side opening one; If they get the new ISO certification on the EN GreenJacket, that will be counted as equal to passing the USGC certification, thus meaning they can sell them in the US.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:44 pm

Hi Phreon,

I'm just ahead of you on this curve. I recently took a rescue course and upgraded (from a Stohlquist Wedgie) to a rescue PFD. Actually, I just added a NorthWater rescue belt to an Astral non-rescue PFD.

I went with a front-zip PFD; one of things we did in our rescue course was escaping from various underwater entrapments, including PFD entrapments (i.e., when your PFD or some of the gear on it gets caught on something, like wood, and keeps you pinned in a bad spot) and it was way easier to get a front-zip PFD off than an over-head PFD, just another little thing to consider.

Whatever jacket works for you I don't know, but it definitely sounds like you should go ahead and get a rescue PFD, or at least a PFD that will accept an add-on rescue belt.

Pat.

oopsiflipped · Post by **oopsiflipped** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:26 am

after bagging on swr instructors, i want to say that you shouldn't use a rescue pfd unless you are trained in how to use it. i'm a mostly self taught boater i'm not trying to say you have to take a formal class but just like anything, you want to have practice in controlled environment before you need it for real. how many people who wear pfd's with quick release belts have never released them in moving water?

i doubt i'll ever have to do a tyrolean or however it is spelled, but it is kinda fun to practice one day with your buddies if you are bored and nothing is running. i have used my pfd to tow boats before, but it isn't what they are designed or intended for. and tow harnesses are for sea kayaking.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:17 am

oopsiflipped wrote:after bagging on swr instructors, i want to say that you shouldn't use a rescue pfd unless you are trained in how to use it.

I'm not trying to be contrary here, but could you define "use"? Do you mean to simply wear a rescue PFD or actively try to use the harness system? I'm mature enough to either remove the chest strap/belt if possible or failing that, just not use it until I've had training. I'm painfully aware of my "growth opportunites" in this sport and know trying to use the harness without training is likely make a marginal situation worse for everyone around.

I'm a do it once, do it right kind of person; I'd like to get a pfd that actually fits right and I can grow into over the next 3 or more years. Long strings of purchasing half-@butt equipment are too expensive for my budget.

Thanks,
Phreon

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:57 am

I'm guessing "use" would mean use, as in having yourself clipped to a rope, or even clipping on a dumped boat; and "wear" would mean wear, as in it's there but you're not going to "use" it.

Can't see anyone advising you not to buy a rescue a PFD, especially as you've described your interests.

Just don't go clipping yourself to the end of a rope and go into a hazardous situation until you've practiced with it and are comfortable with how it feels and works (and same for the people on the other end of the rope!).

If someone were to tell you not to wear a rescue PFD before you take a course, I think it would OK to be contrary about that!

On the other hand, at a rescue course, formal or informal, you might get a look at some different options and decide what sort of PFD you want to spend your money on.

Several of us who had been contemplating buying fancy rescue PFDs just ended up adding rescue belts to other PFDs. Though it sounds like you don't love your current stuff anyway, and they may not take the belts, so perhaps you're shopping anyhow.

Whether you wait for a course (and opportuntiy to check out the options) or not, go ahead and get a rescue PFD.

Pat.

oopsiflipped · Post by **oopsiflipped** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:20 am

use does in fact mean use. but keep in mind that if you are wearing it with the belt attached, others may expect you to use it. or you may find yourself in a situation where you feel as if you should.

when i started guiding in WV after training in BC the year before, i asked the WV guides why none of them wore rescue vest unlike all the guides i had worked with in BC. i was told that 'i don't want to get a rope clipped on me if someone goes under a rock."