C-Forum

oh, wow, look how your open canoe pitch was ignored craig....

wiggle, wiggle, having to grab my boat to get out is kinDa sketch, but way better than relying on a mechanical release. k.i.s.s.

I had the same problem so I set up a one pull system that you can just pull with the skirt loop. The qr is not connected to the skirt but I have had no trouble grabbing both at the same time
here is a link to some photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49024359@N07/sets
click on outfitting

I just modified a dagger pedestal its kinda confusing but basically my straps are connected to a snap shackle via thin rope and i have a loop of webbing connected to the pull on the shackle which runs up and lays with my spray skirt loop when you pull the shackle opens and the rope will run out basically freeing the straps. The downfall is it is a bit complicated, but really anything that breaks can be fixed from stuff in my pfd. I also used airplane buckles which have another one pull QR once the skirt is off the boat.

I am super happy with it. It really as allowed me to have more confidence in getting out of my boat fast thus allowing me to try to roll a couple more times

I agree with larry that backrest height is a big thing too. Another thing is how far back are your straps? As your straps get closer to your crotch the harder it is to get out of them. So look at the placement of where the straps connect at both ends.

Some people seem to be able to do well with looser outfitting better than others I personally am prob more like you and like to be very tight. All this being said make sure the rest of your outfitting is really tight ie hip pads and bulkhead and your straps don't need to be as tight.

I know from previous posts that you like to use a bulkhead but I would really recommend trying the snowboard bindings on your knees. They are so much better. You can get the tight but you can still slip out easy. I can roll with just these front straps and know thigh straps

As I have discussed before on this site I think it is practically impossible to set up a c1 you can get out of hands free. But its nice to know when you decide to pull that you are coming out immediately.

Craig Smerda wrote:OC1 with a foam bulkhead

Yeah! so you can jump out easy when you end up in the sieves!

..(because you had to run that manky sneak line to stay dry)
or ...(because you missed the last eddy because you were swamped)
or ...(because you couldn't do that much needed cross boof in that big ol bathtub)

I think those one pull set-ups are cool, but they seem a little bit complicated. Just be careful and keep an eye on all those strings.

really though, just get all the components dialed in so you can wet exit with the straps on. It's doable. it takes some effort but it just might be worth it.

And the older i get the more i preach

i think you die from lack of air

Hey LARRY. Anyone can catch a last ditch eddy with a boat that has no water in it....

jeez.. whats the fun in that.

Post to all that think there's a difference between "playboat outfitting" and "creek outfitting".

The following event happened on a 2+ / 3 river that I had paddled 100's of times before. I was in my Wheelboy with thigh straps and seatbelt. I'd never swam from it and had a very solid handroll. (but hard to hand roll when you're under another boat).
In my C-1 creeker (which did have single pull ejection) I ran the tough runs with the best of my kayaking community.

I'd never, ever anticipated having to eject on this run.
I took in water before I could get out, came close to drowning.
There were nearly two victims in this incident.

www.kayakwest.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1380

I haven't paddled C-1 on a river since , probably won't again.

hey Larry, can you post pictures of your system without having to pull anything? I'd be interested how you do it


me, I have an emergency buckle for my knee straps- takes long to get in, but super quick exit.
I use snowboard straps that are connected with a textile strap leading into a buckle.......this buckle can be released with a puller that I place exactly where the opening strap of my spraydeck is, so in the case I have one grip, one pull and everything is open...
I'd have to pull in order to open the spraydeck anyway, so there's no extra effort.

I will post some pics later on..

driftwood wrote:Additionally, I feel it is important that the one pull does not make a loop (basically a big suicide strap across the lap). Instead use one extension from each buckle that reaches out of the boat, or better yet have the female half of the buckles between your legs with the male ends coming in from the sides, then connecting the female buckles with a single grab loop or bar will not make an additional entrapment hazard.

I don't think that's going to be an issue, as I've always used two straps coming into one releasable point, I know what you're getting at from my open boat's straps though.

yarnellboat wrote:I also wouldn't want to promote a system that requires you to pull anything in order to get out.

I use a plastic buckle from a quick-release belt of rescue PFD, and it's on a small loop of 2" webbing

That sounds like the system I use, only with a 1-pull fitted, but frankly the buckles have been so stiff to release that I'm planning to scrap them.

For everyone who reckons I should be able to come out with my straps on, I don't think so... If I could stay in a boat using lower body grip, I wouldn't have straps just a bulkhead, making the straps "wiggleable" would mean that I'd stand F-all chance of sticking a protracted bit of upside-down-time or taking a beating and rolling up.

What do people reckon for a secondary release point, I was thinking that a breakaway connection which would fail if I paniced and pushed out, but not under normal circumstances, can anyone reccomend something? If not I'll use fastex buckles, as they are releasable, just not as easily.

i don't use lower body grip to stay in my boat, josh. i just have my straps set up right. i'd don't even have a bulkhead, but would like to add some snowboard straps for my knees. keep messing around with it til you get it right.

Its as simple as this!

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=diesel

The plastic grab loop runs under the rim or your skirt, grab it and your skirt will come off as well.

If you swim you will have to pull your skirt or if you get knocked out your friends will have to pull your skit handle weather a kayaker or C-boater. The one handle pulls your skirt and releases your thigh straps.

I will have to disagree with Larry who preaches you need to wiggle out. If you can wiggle out you can certainly get ripped out in a huge hole and swimming cause you out fitting sucks or is too loose.

TheKrikkitWars wrote:What do people reckon for a secondary release point, I was thinking that a breakaway connection which would fail if I paniced and pushed out, but not under normal circumstances, can anyone reccomend something? If not I'll use fastex buckles, as they are releasable, just not as easily.

Yes, I have northwater straps, although expensive, I like the side-release buckles as a back-up plan to the full quick release, airplane seat-belt I also have. I also thought of having a back-up release plan, and the northwater straps with the fastex buckles do exactly that. I've used them instead of pulling the main release and they work great.

This is in my creekboat, my playboat is not nearly as safe. Also, to comment on safety, whitewater paddling in any vessel is inherently dangerous, whether rafting k1, oc1, whatever there are dangers. C1ing is also dangerous but not necessarily more so than other means of paddling (see also squirtboating). Threads like this help keep all us C1ers paddling as safely as possible. Add to that safety meetings, which also help. But I'm not discouraging people from posting their near-death experiences...this only helps to remind us to get our outfitting right and take every precaution possible.

Don't forget seat back height!!!! A huge factor

dgmonster wrote:I will have to disagree with Larry who preaches you need to wiggle out. If you can wiggle out you can certainly get ripped out in a huge hole and swimming cause you out fitting sucks or is too loose.

If I have to be that tight, I don't need to be on that river. I'm all for QR systems, they are a fascinating puzzle and certainly of value, but I don't want to depend on that. There are too many ways for buckles, swivels, pins, and cams to fail. Good thing I'm happy on class III/IV-.

i think seat width and consequentially how much room there is between your seat and hip pads or cockpit rim is important too as well as what you wear on your feet. after dennis huntley told me he considered anything other than socks (anything with a heel) an entrapment hazard i switched.

i didn't have a problem hiking out of the Russell Fork in NRS palyboating socks this weekend, but i sure as heck wore shoes when i was hiking back in to finish up the trip yesterday. i think i'm going to keep those shoes in my creekboat from now on.

dgmonster wrote:I will have to disagree with Larry who preaches you need to wiggle out. If you can wiggle out you can certainly get ripped out in a huge hole and swimming cause you out fitting sucks or is too loose.

xmas0c1c1k1 wrote:Don't forget seat back height!!!! A huge factor

Yup, I've been ripped out of my straps more than once, and every time it would have been infinately safer to have rolled up (I once ended up pinned by my body, with my legs out of the straps and wedged in the stern of my boat, I just managed to get my legs back forwards when my boat got hit by a raft (guided by my housemate), which literally ripped my out of my boat and deck, a second early and I'd have been nursing two broken femurs and a whole lot of cracked ribs).

To help me stay in i use a seat back which comes up to the small of my back.

oopsiflipped wrote:i think seat width and consequentially how much room there is between your seat and hip pads or cockpit rim is important too as well as what you wear on your feet.

Yup, learned that one early on in my C1 career. I use a narrow saddle, kayak backband, and wear flexible booties with no heel to speak of, just a rubber sole (took forever to find).