C-Forum

Boats I have personal experience with:

Dagger Dimension - great for river tripping. Too much rocker to be any fun on lakes.

Dagger Legend - does fine for easy river tripping, ok on lakes. High "slab" sides make it catch a lot of wind.

Bell Yellowstone tandem - maneuvers nicely on moving water, but still behaves decently on flat. Not enough volume or freeboard for my tastes. It'd be a very wet ride in anything other than easy class 1.

Bell Alaskan - 17 foot boat, similar handling characteristics to the Yellowstone. Also the same lack of hieght. Why would you make a tripper with rocker appropriate to class 2/3 whitewater and then cut the sides so low that it only has maybe 6 inches of freeboard before loading any gear?

I can't say it is the best but the Dagger Legend is/was a dam good river tripper that still does okay on lakes. I've had mine on everything from Quetico to III+. Stable as a rock and very manuverable. What a great boat.

more to add, please post it. Much obliged!

17' Nova Craft Prospector in Royalite, Esquif Mistral has good volume and the material is good for your application. Esquif Avalon is a nice touring boat but a bit less volume.

Take a look at:

16' Arkota from Two Brothers Canoe Co., a new manufacturing duo out of Garfield, Arkansas.

http://www.twobrotherscanoe.com/

See my early write-up at:
http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/vie ... =3&t=17059

Louis and Bill are working at making really good canoes, and this one might just fit your needs.

AND, at $850 new for a truly nice handling tandem, it is hard to go wrong.

And, you'll be supporting a new (relatively) local supplier.

Regards,

al

Great thread! Starting to cover some ground.
Anybody got a comment on the Esquif Canyon, I think I'm seeing a few in Vimeos?

Anybody got a comment on the little brother, the Esquif Pocket Canyon? One showed up locally but I haven't had a chance to test drive it, to maybe to compare it to a Blast or an Outrage X Tandem or my Caption
Possibly for use as a short 2-3 day easy gr 3 tripper.

Esquif Canyon would suck on lakes, which is one think the OP wants to paddle on. It's great in moving water - class III.

The Pocket Canyon is perhaps a hair larger than a Caption, again very poor lake boat and I'd go with the full size brother if you're into waves of any size. Would be better than the Canyon if it's twisties and rock gardens, but doesn't have the freeboard/ flare for larger stuff. Much closer to a Vertige X with bench seats than a Blast.

Do I understand that you want a boat that is capable of carrying you, your wife, 2 children plus gear?

Of the boats mentioned I think the Dagger (now Mad River) Legend 16 would certainly have the capacity to do so. It is no speed demon on flat water, for sure, but is pleasant to paddle if there is any helpful current, will hold a ton, and stay pretty dry.

I do not think that the Esquif Mistral would have enough volume to do that comfortably but I could be wrong. A boat like the Dagger Caper, Dagger (or Mad River) Caption, or Dagger Dimension definitely wouldn't nor would the Howler.

The Wenonah Cascade looks like a good possibility and I agree that one of the 17' Prospector designs would probably work. The Royalex MRC Explorer probably would as well, but you might be pushing its capacity a bit.

Nova
intripede
or even the odyese

The novas and intripedes com in 16' and 17'
Odyese are 15

go check out www.mohawkcanoes.com

with gear. If my wife goes too, she'd paddle this boat (whatever I buy) along with one child, while I paddle my Old Town Discovery 169 with the other child. Children are ages 2 and 4 so pretty light. I plan to do a lot of lake paddling so it's important that it performs fairly well on flat water.

A friend just offered to sell me his Blue Hole OCA. Does anyone know how it would perform? I'm guessing that it would be cumbersome like my Discovery, but also realize that it's a classic boat and it might be a cool to own one.

Go for the OCA, surely a bit heavy, but it will work good nae matter what you take it on. Plus classic is the bomb

The Blue Hole OCA is similar in shape and dimensions to the Dagger (now Mad River) Legend 16 so it will share its virtues (capacity, stability, dryness) and deficits (slowness on flat water, susceptibility to adverse winds due to depth and high stems). In addition it will be even tougher and even heavier than the Legend.

You could put your entire family in it without problems. My wife and I used to paddle Class II-III water in a Legend with our two daughters when they were young without any trouble.

just my 2cents, If it is yo be use mainly on flat water up to II-III rivers, why going with a Legend, they are pigs IMO.... I would get a nice light(kevlar or Duralite) prospector or similar model in a 17' and it would do great on all that stuff... just my thoughts!

go that route is that I'll be on a lot of rocky, low-water rivers that are pretty boat-abusive. I think I'd ruin a kevlar or duralite boat pretty quickly. Ideally, I'd own a kevlar tripper that's designed specifically for lakes and own another boat like a royalex prospector for rivers. Perhaps in a few years I'll spend the big bucks and do it right. Trying to find a compromise for now.

Well, if you can destroy a hellman duralite or duratuff canoe you must paddle real tough rivers!! Like I said earlier, these boat are realy super tough... And I'm not afiliated with Hellman in any way other than being a happy customer!!