C-Forum

Did anyone ever say, that this was suppose to be an (all) exclusive how to explanation? The more ways you can say (or explain) the same thing, all the better. Andrew was simply packaging a possible method, in a easily digestible and memorable manner. Sometime's all it takes is rewording an explanation, and something suddenly goes click. I really believe he was saying this is one way, and not that this is the one and only way. I find that making a student try another different approach to a particular technique to be highly beneficial... as it has often worked on me.

No I don't think anyone has said that.

2by4 as a beginner's drill... interesting. I was working a lot on paddling forward last year, with the components of the 2by4. Andrew was out with an injury, which meant he had ample time to sit on shore and nag.. I mean offer helpful tips. We came up with a saying that defined our goal. "a correction stroke is just fixing a mistake" now we're referring to any correction stroke that creates drag. It is really cool to work on a series of moves with that mantra in your head. it took me a while, but i was amazed at how true it was.
So I guess this year i hope to move beyond "beginner"
ps.
and no the 2by4 doesn't work for surfing or anytime the current is going by faster than you can pull on your paddle.

paddle pointers??

yeah see the thread comic and new video, or go to paddlepointers.com

"a correction stroke is just fixing a mistake" now we're referring to any correction stroke that creates drag.

I would challenge anyone to a race, they can use forward/cross forward combinations. I'll power/pry and we'll see who's momentum gets robbed!

Fancy a race Paul?

Kelvin, are you saying that that using stern correction strokes create less drag than using forward strokes??? I must not understand because if a correction stroke follows a forward stroke, than that's impossible...

Isn't Andrew Westwood a pretty good slalom racer???

IMHO forward-and-pry strokes are bound to be stronger since longer, but then the pry does kill your momentum and also the "reload" time is much longer since you need to go all the way from stern to bow to shoot one more stroke.

All slalom racers uses predominantly bow draws and short forward strokes that has to mean something for sure.

2by4 as a beginner's drill... interesting. I was working a lot on paddling forward last year, with the components of the 2by4.

So I guess this year i hope to move beyond "beginner"


and no the 2by4 doesn't work for surfing or anytime the current is going by faster than you can pull on your paddle.

Paul,

If you are a beginner, I am hopeless.

Seriously though, when you teach beginners, at what point in the teaching sequence would you introduce the 2x4. I may be off track, but I thought it provided a way to get new paddlers into rapids without relying on stern corrections.

There were several mentions to Tom Foster's videos. Does anyone has additional information on them?

well, beginner or advanced, I like to intro 2by4 as they get out of the van.
seriously though, it is really cool to do a session and have everyone carving figure 8's on the flat water without even mentioning any stern correction strokes. when they realize that the lightbulb often goes on.

Now i'll admit I some big desperate prys during a day of paddling, sometimes ya gotta turn... now!

So Kelvin and I are goin' head to head in taureaus at the tellico race... sweet. The point being that the shorter/slower the boat the less you can afford to drag your paddle. If you have a good rudder you can probably get away with that in a fast boat.

This sounds like a great bar side debate for ALF.
cheers
Paul
ps. ask Eli for his input, he seems to boat pretty good

If you have a good rudder you can probably get away with that in a fast boat.

This was an interesting statement by Paul and something I teach beginners. If you're driving straight, from point a to b, only the first stroke from a dead stop should require a quick pry. From then on, you should be able to feather your paddle back to a stern rudder. The trick is holding it for an instant. Too many beginning paddlers rush this rudder and the canoe begins to veer. Then they return to the pry and start killing some of their speed. It's amazing how efficient you can be if you use a rudder rather than a pry. You can then add some boat tilt to carve where you want to go.

Paddle Power wrote:There were several mentions to Tom Foster's videos. Does anyone has additional information on them?

Back in 1992 Tom did a video (on VHS tape) entitled "Solo Canoeing: Whitewater Bound". The tutorial video was done entirely on flat water, and to my knowledge, it was never released in the DVD format.

In 2006 Tom released "Solo Open Whitewater Canoeing with Tom Foster" available on DVD: http://store.noc.com/Tom-Foster-Whitewa ... 28/Product

part of the rational for not teaching the rudder to beginners is that they can not do it efficiently, so therefore they can not make their boat move forward... much. anyone can do some resemblance of a forward stroke and off side forward stroke. it doesn't matter if their stroke is very good, the boat will move anyway.
(i have to give much credit here to Andrew for figuring this out, he is just computerly challenged so is unlikely to got on the forum to explain).

Now i admit that if i'm not worried about being efficient or fast, I do a rudder stroke ie; on the flatwater, when i'm feeling lazy etc.

Yup i think this will have to go on the paddlepointer wish list. you'll note in the front surfing paddlepointer there is lots of ruddering going on.
paul

pmp wrote:part of the rational for not teaching the rudder to beginners is that they can not do it efficiently, so therefore they can not make their boat move forward... much. anyone can do some resemblance of a forward stroke and off side forward stroke. it doesn't matter if their stroke is very good, the boat will move anyway.
(i have to give much credit here to Andrew for figuring this out, he is just computerly challenged so is unlikely to got on the forum to explain).

But if you can't rudder, you can't get out of a carve without dropping your "speed"

It's not either this or that. Both techniques (rudder, 2x4) have their point in time where it's rewarding to look at the other technique. A matter of choice and what appeals the most; to the paddler and the instructor.

But a very nice discussion here!