Creek and Destroy Series Premiere

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:53 am

It should be VI- then... I can just hear it now.. what grade you paddling... oh I'm a 5.2 paddler thats just silly

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:43 am

Addison scale

http://www.webspawner.com/users/nikosm/ ... scale.html

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:06 am

Rivers can change drastically within a short time and with just a little difference in water flow. To me, its just stupid so try to define something as fluid (pun) and constantly changing as a river with ratings sooooo specific like we use on immoble and rarely changing rock routes. Reminds me of the military, gotta try to do something different to get your promotion or medal (attention), then the next in line does the same thing...and so on. In the end you end up where you started. KISS... (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:21 am

I have a three rating system.

#1. "No problem"
#2. "Dang... wish me luck"
#3. "I hope no one see's me quickly sneaking down the portage trail."

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:32 am

I like that scale.... see, I can understand that without carrying around a rating scale guide.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:36 am

I like that scale.... see, I can understand that without carrying around a rating scale guide.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:48 am

Craig Smerda wrote:I have a three rating system.

#1. "No problem"
#2. "Dang... wish me luck"
#3. "I hope no one see's me quickly sneaking down the portage trail."

I am immediately switching to the Craig Smerda whitewater rating system...

!

TGG!

JFD · Post by **JFD** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:12 am

not commenting on the rating system in general, nor on anyone's paddling abilities here. just some comments about Otter Creek's rating. I've run it a medium and high flows, and I've run most other comparable creeks listed in the WV guidebook. Otter is a hard one to rate, because the individual rapids are not the most difficult or complex. There's a lot of hard class 4 in there, might be a few that would barely merit a class 5 rating at moderate flows. Compared to other class 5 creeks in the region, it has relatively few rock sieves, no big waterfalls, and the majority of the run is boat-scoutable if you have good creek eddy-hopping skills. However, the overall experience warrants a class 5 rating for the following reasons: pretty deep wilderness by eastern US standards, long day trip, significant flow variations that can occur in just a few hours while you're on the creek, and LOTS of potential strainer hazards that change with every windstorm, snowstorm, or high water event. Not completely sure, but I think the 5+ in parentheses in the WV guidebook probably refers to its rating at very high levels (i.e. takeout gauge underwater), when the eddies get to be few and far between and you have to run past a lot of blind corners with unknown strainer hazards. Most class 4 boaters will be very stressed out on an Otter Creek trip.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:59 am

I concur. true Class V+, all conditions are turned up to 11. IE...if you get hurt badly, you are seriously, seriously screwed. Just because the 'class system' rates rapids...doesn't mean other factors don't come into play.

There were 8 other kayakers with me that day. Serious Class V boaters - all of which were stressed out. 13 Miles of serious rapids at high flow gets to be overwhelming.

Especially in an open boat.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:05 am

craig - nice post w/ addisons scale. I think his scale is spot on.

its just not fan friendly...YO MAN I JUST RAN a 5.3.C today!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:13 am

FullGnarlzOC wrote: I concur. true Class V+, all conditions are turned up to 11. IE...if you get hurt badly, you are seriously, seriously screwed. Just because the 'class system' rates rapids...doesn't mean other factors don't come into play.

There were 8 other kayakers with me that day. Serious Class V boaters - all of which were stressed out. 13 Miles of serious rapids at high flow gets to be overwhelming.

Especially in an open boat.

Not to comment on the video, as I haven't watched it.

(Perhaps-maybe one day, especially if it was posted over in the video section of this forum).

However being in an open boat doesn't change the rating on a rapid. It's class 3 or 4 or 5 regardless of craft. If not wouldn't most runs be class III+ in a creature-craft, as the skill required certainly is diminished. While it's (often) simply harder to run in a open canoe, that's just part of the game we've chosen to play.

As for a rapid rating systems and rock.dot scenarios. I really like their supplemental R and X (suffix) ratings. Where an R means something like, in the event something goes awry expect to get hurt; potentially very hurt, and not just an arse whipping. And where a X-factor means - expect death to follow if anything unexpectedly occurs; where the chance of any recovery may be nonexistent (think ground fall). These are most often used by climbers to affix a certain degree of seriousness for the lead climber. And are used to add caution, when someone could unknowingly get in way over their head, when in an unknown situation. Think Class III-R, I'm sure we all know of a few of these (maybe SUNSHINE on the Green)... where even a roll would not be of much help, if the crux move was blown.

tokebelokee · Post by **tokebelokee** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:38 pm

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/conte ... b-comments

Read 4th comment from top to learn of class 6-7 rapids.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:39 pm

I was with you until you called put sunshine and class III in the same sentence... That's a class V boof due to the hair factor.

and Phil... I know ur like 19th century old and all, and computers might not make much since to you... but how it works is... you have this thing called the internet. it has web addresses. You can post web addresses as 'hyperlinks' (don't try and understand what that is). These things called "hyperlinks" - If you click them, they take you to places. Sometimes they are places that you do not want to go. Sometimes they are places that show high quality canoeing footage with non-stop action. In this case, you would find the later of the two

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:02 pm

FullGnarlzOC wrote:I was with you until you called put sunshine and class III in the same sentence... That's a class V boof due to the hair factor.

Uh, I think that's exactly what he was saying. It's a class III move with class V consequences. (which under the current rating system makes it class V)

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:41 pm

I dont even think its a class III move.... it's class V IMHO due to the hair factor.

When I think class III move, i think i have 5ft of leeway wherever I go...

On sunshine, you have inches - on both the peel-out, boof, and arguably landing.